Oct 012012
 

“Diabetics are more likely to have stillborn or damaged children. Do you want a damaged child? What would you do with a brain-dead baby??” – OB to mother.

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 October 1, 2012  OB, prenatal  Add comments

  49 Responses to ““…Do You Want A Damaged Child…?””

  1. its been a long day
    and Nana is tired
    but my first tho’t was…
    “Maybe I could send it to med school like YOUR mother did!”

    **sigh**

  2. Okay, I’ll throw something really obvious out there. There is no such thing as a perfectly healthy woman. If you look hard enough, you will find a reason that anyone “shouldn’t” have a child. (By idiotic standards, I mean.) There are a ton of women that manage diabetes, even during pregnancy, just fine. To assume their child will be stillborn or brain damaged is beyond ridiculous.

    OP, I really hope you didn’t let this dingbat of a doctor scare you!

    • What kills me is how Drs think risk = certainty. Every woman is susceptble to her own set of risks based on her individual biology, but that doesn’t mean that they will happen in the vast majority of cases.

    • Amen. There’s a saying: If you think you are healthy, you haven’t seen enough specialists. ;)

      • Hey, and I’m all for leaving well enough alone. If you don’t have any outright symptoms and you’re doing fine, keep on going! But just because someone doesn’t have symptoms doesn’t mean they are perfectly healthy, either.

        • I wasn’t trying to imply that you can never be asymptomatic. However, if you get regular health screenings and everything looks “normal”, most people will feel assured that they are, indeed, healthy. My point was more that if you take these same people (normal results from regualr health screenings) and put them under the proverbial microscope you will likely find *something* wrong with them ;)

    • Actually any reason a woman SHOULD have children is idiotic. There is NO reason to risk creating a braindead or stillborn child. It’s ridiculous to act like a “mild” risk is nothing to worry about. But I guess all that matters is what the parents want. Who cares what happens to the child as long as you can “pass along your genes.”

      • Ach, I can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic?

        • I’m serious and right on the money. People need to stop breeding.

          • Serious, yes. Right on the money, no. And no offense, but if that’s the way you think then you’re obviously on the wrong website. How is the human race suppose to continue if people don’t repopulate the earth?

          • If one gives a crap about the well-being of other humans, then, yes, I’m right on the money. I’m not on the wrong site since this site is about more than breeding. The human race does not need to continue. Suffering is unnecessary and more important than continuing the human race.

          • You know, Ana, part of me says that I should leave well enough alone here but I’m going to say one more thing before taking my own advice. I’m dying. I have a spinal cord injury that is slowly killing me. On top of that, I just found out that that I more than likely have colon cancer. Did I mention that I’m only 31 years old? But here’s the thing… I have parents that love me. I have a sister that is my best and truest friend. I have FIVE nieces that are my own, five little girls that love me more than life itself. I have friends. I have extended family. I have people in my life that are having to come to grips with the reality that I’m in really bad shape and their grief often falls back on me. Living is hard work. Dying is hard work. But living while dying is the hardest work of all. So unless you know what it’s like to hold a six year old in your arms while she sobs over her upcoming loss, unless you know what it’s like to approach your sister and ask her to sing at your funeral, unless you know what it’s like to watch you mother lay on the floor and cry over you, then you do not have the right to talk about suffering being unnecessary. Every day that I have with my family is a gift! I’m just sorry that you don’t know what that feels like because rest assured if you did, you would NEVER say what you just said to me.

          • Your suffering and the suffering of your loved ones IS unnecessary. There is no purpose to you or your loved one’s hurting. You and I know that you don’t deserve to be going through any of this. In an ideal world we would all be able to live without suffering. Breeding is, sadly, the cause of suffering and that is why I advocate against it. If you didn’t exist, you wouldn’t be suffering and you wouldn’t be sad about your non-existence. One can appreciate life and also appreciate the pointlessness of suffering and the non-harm of non-existence. Think about it. I am sorry that you have to suffer and I hope the rest of your time on this earth is filled with the least amount of suffering as possible. You and everyone else who exists deserves the least amount of suffering as possible.

          • Wow. Okay. Tomorrow, I’ll be sure to let my family know that they would be far better off without me having ever been in their lives because after all, the heartache of losing me will far outweigh the joy and love I’ve brought to their lives. Don’t waste your time or emotions feeling sorry for me, Ana. And on that note, I’m done talking to you. I don’t know if you’re being hurtful on purpose or if you’re just that ignorant but quite frankly, it doesn’t matter. The damage is already done.

          • I didn’t say that your family would be better off without you. I’m not saying anything negative about you as a person. Because I’m talking to you, I used you as an example. What I’m saying that if NO ONE existed, NO ONE would suffer unnecessarily. I’m not trying to be hurtful and I’m not ignorant. The opposite actually. I’m saying that neither you nor anyone deserves to suffer the way you do. I am against breeding because I am against unnecessary suffering. I’m not feeling sorry for you. I am empathizing with you as a human being. Try to understand from my POV just a little bit. I know you don’t want to suffer, you don’t want your family to suffer, and you just want to live without the suffering. That’s what I want to. In an ideal world that is how things would be. Again, I wish you the least amount of suffering as possible.

          • Remember that you brought up your suffering and your young age for a reason. Because you don’t want it and because you don’t want your loved ones to hurt. Don’t be afraid of accepting the non-necessity of your suffering. It doesn’t mean that you can’t appreciate your life while you are here.

          • Ok. Technically, it’s true that if no one existed, no one would suffer. By that logic, a serial killer (who kills their victims instantaneously and painlessly) is doing great good – what a hero to prevent these people (and all their potential descendants) from the inevitable suffering that life brings! Yeah, ok, so it’s a valid philosophical point of view that the pain of living outweighs the pleasure. But you are talking here about real individuals, not philosophical constructs. If an individual decides their own personal pain is greater than their desire to live, that is one thing. YOU don’t get to tell them. YOU don’t get to choose whether it would be better that Tee gets ‘the least amount of suffering’ or the longest amount of life, or somewhere in between. By that logic, you are actually telling her that you hope she dies soon when you wish her less suffering! Tee, I hope your suffering never gets to the point where it outweighs your joy. I too am glad you’re here.

          • Thank you, Nicky. I appreciate your words very much. It’s nice to know that someone cares!

          • Tee, I’ve said over and over again that I hope you don’t suffer that much and I wish you didn’t have to in the first place. It should be clear that I care about you even though I am antinatalist and you aren’t. Again, I apologize for any hurt I’ve caused.

          • Tee, and to clarify, I appreciate your existence now that you are here and I wish that you do not suffer more or die earlier than you want to. I am sure I come across as a harasser, so I will let you know that this is my final response to you. I do not want to cause you more stress than this life already brings.

          • Thank you, Ana. I appreciate your apology and clarification.

          • Nicki, that’s not my logic at all. There is a large difference between non-existence and death, especially death via murder. Non-existence means never having existed. Dying doesn’t negate the fact that the person did exist and suffer. I hope you are able to see the difference someday. If not, I understand. Many people, for some reason, can’t tell the difference.

            I am telling Tee that I hope she doesn’t suffer much which is exactly what you said to Tee. Why do you assume that my meaning would be different from your meaning? It should be clear from my words that I do not wish suffering OR death on anyone. It should also be clear that I care about her well-being as a human being, not as a philosophical construct. What I wish is that she didn’t have to suffer unnecessarily. It is clear to me that you feel the same way even if you may not be antinatalist. All humans who care about other humans want to eradicate suffering because they know it’s unnecessary. However, they often don’t realize that they can easily minimize it by simply not breeding.

          • Nicki, as I said in my “October 12th, 2012 at 9:43 pm” post, one can appreciate [someone's] life and also appreciate the pointlessness of suffering and the non-harm of non-existence [at the same time].

            And as I said to Tee, I also wish you the least amount of suffer as possible. That includes not dying before you feel you should.

            P.S. If we’re going to actually use my logic, I would say that sterilizing people, not murdering them, is doing a much better “great good” but that raises a lot of ethical questions, too. It would be the best “great good” if everyone would voluntarily stop breeding. If you are already here, I believe you have every right to die the way you want to die provided it doesn’t physically harm others. Even though murder has the potential to eradicate future suffering, it takes away an “already-here” person’s right to die as they choose.

          • What a sad, empty life you must lead.

            I have a chronic pain condition. I have also lost seven children to miscarriage. Never for one second have I ever wished to have been not born. Never have I wished for my dead children to have never lived any more than I’ve wished for my live ones to not exist.

            You must have a very terrible life, indeed.

          • Tee, I am so glad that you’re here and you’ve chosen to share yourself with us. Thank you for making our days a little brighter.

          • Thank you, Ellen. I really needed to hear that this morning.

          • Ellen, I’m glad she’s here, too. I wish she didn’t have to suffer unnecessarily, though.

          • Thank you, Tee, for speaking so honestly and eloquently about this. I don’t post often on this site, but read it every day. I pray for you when I read your posts, will miss you when you go on ahead, and can’t wait to meet you in person one day!

          • Ach, thank you, JoMarch! Your sweet words have brought tears to my eyes this evening! I look forward to meeting you as well!

  3. Is the OB trying to tell a woman who’s already diabetic not to get pregnant, or is he saying this to a diabetic who’s already? It’s stupid either way, just curious.

  4. “Why don’t you just admit you have no clue how to help a diabetic woman who’s pregnant and refer me out to a maternal-fetal specialist? You don’t need to take it personally. Just write the referral.”

  5. I was wondering if this was possibly to a woman who is not even diabetic. Like trying to scare her into a glucose screening?

    • Because we all know, in the logical world of obstetrics, screening = cure, possibility = certainty, and minor risk = dead baby.

    • I agree. I bet she declined the glucose screening. But my question is this….if she HAD gotten the screening done and it came back positive…then what would this doc do? Just write her off, apologize that her baby would be brain dead and move on? because we all know you can’t possibly treat a mother with diabetes so she has a successful outcome for pregnancy…(eyes rolling)

  6. As a pregnant type 1 diabetic, reading this left me speechless… and pissed.

  7. So my husband is brain damaged then doc? I only ask because my mother-in-law’s a Type 1 Diabetic, and I’m wondering if I ought to be cutting him some slack when he kicks off and leaves his socks under his desk. Or if I should be worried for everyone’s sake about the fact that the Air Force lets him work in secure areas and combat zones. Oh wait, risk doesn’t equal certainty.

  8. While I appriciate being *properly* warned with my second *kindly AND tactfully* that I had a risk factor that could increase the possibility of a miscarage…..tact people….tact… (he’s fine by the way, but for a while we weren’t so sure)

  9. Wow, what a JERK. Yes, there are some increased risks in women with diabetes, but those chances only become significantly higher if their blood sugar is under control.

    I have type one diabetes and my endocrinologist and my OB worked with me to help keep my numbers normal (my A1c went all the way down to 5.2) and they monitored everything to make sure Xander was thriving and safe. Tada! Healthy baby. The odds were in my favor because my doctors supported me.

  10. Gee, my grandmother was a severe diabetic and yet, she managed to give birth to four healthy children. One son was 14lbs at birth, but no brain damage…

  11. Having trouble posting for some reason.

  12. What a sad, empty life you must lead.I have a chronic pain condition.I have also lost seven children to miscarriage.Never for one second have I ever wished to have been not born.Never have I wished for my dead children to have never lived any more than I’ve wished for my live ones to not exist.You must have a very terrible life, indeed.

    I’m sorry you have a chronic pain condition. It’s a good thing that you have never wished that you hadn’t been born. Hopefully you never get to that point. Some people feel this way or have mixed feelings about existence. Mixed feelings about existence is very common in fact. The fun thing is that you wouldn’t be sad if you didn’t exist either (One of the great advantages of nonexistence!).

    And of course you haven’t wished that your children (dead and alive) were never born. Most people who breed don’t because they think forcing someone into existence is a “good thing” and not the morally neutral at best and immoral at worst thing it is.

    By the way, whether your children want to exist is about THEM not about you (since you aren’t the one experiencing their life), but, again, a lot of parents can’t wrap their mind around all of this. They think that since everything is (currently) going “fine” with them, everything is going to go “fine” with their progeny. They don’t think anything can or will go wrong. Rose-colored glasses are necessary in order to purposefully breed.

    Like most parents, you probably love your kids but you can’t have your cake and eat it too when it comes to forcing someone into existence. Sadly, no amount of love in the world can stop nature from doing what it wants to do.

    Your “pity” is not needed. At all. (In fact, you are insulting me under the guise of pitying me which is rather inhumane) Save your pity for those who require it. Unlike most people, I chose not to force someone into existence where suffering and death is guaranteed. My life is great, actually, because no matter what happens to me, there’s no way it will happen to my potential offspring. I know most parents want to truly protect their child from harm and I actually did it – by not breeding.

    Hopefully, one day you can carefully consider my words. They make perfect sense if you take the rose-colored glasses off. Yes, it’s hard to take them off because they save us from losing our minds, but it’s possible. And, like I tell everyone, may you and your loved ones suffer the least amount as possible.

  13. What a sad, empty life you must lead.I have a chronic pain condition.I have also lost seven children to miscarriage.Never for one second have I ever wished to have been not born.Never have I wished for my dead children to have never lived any more than I’ve wished for my live ones to not exist.You must have a very terrible life, indeed.

    mimi, I’m sorry you have a chronic pain condition. It’s a good thing that you have never wished that you hadn’t been born. Hopefully you never get to that point. Some people feel this way or have mixed feelings about existence. Mixed feelings about existence is very common in fact. The fun thing is that you wouldn’t be sad if you didn’t exist either (One of the great advantages of nonexistence!).

    And of course you haven’t wished that your children (dead and alive) were never born. Most people who breed don’t because they think forcing someone into existence is a “good thing” and not the morally neutral at best and immoral at worst thing it is.

    By the way, whether your children want to exist is about THEM not about you (since you aren’t the one experiencing their life), but, again, a lot of parents can’t wrap their mind around all of this. They think that since everything is (currently) going “fine” with them, everything is going to go “fine” with their progeny. They don’t think anything can or will go wrong. Rose-colored glasses are necessary in order to purposefully breed.

    Like most parents, you probably love your kids but you can’t have your cake and eat it too when it comes to forcing someone into existence. Sadly, no amount of love in the world can stop nature from doing what it wants to do.

    Your “pity” is not needed. At all. (In fact, you are insulting me under the guise of pitying me which is rather inhumane) Save your pity for those who require it. Unlike most people, I chose not to force someone into existence where suffering and death is guaranteed. My life is great, actually, because no matter what happens to me, there’s no way it will happen to my potential offspring. I know most parents want to truly protect their child from harm and I actually did it – by not breeding.

    Hopefully, one day you can carefully consider my words. They make perfect sense if you take the rose-colored glasses off. Yes, it’s hard to take them off because they save us from losing our minds, but it’s possible. And, like I tell everyone, may you and your loved ones suffer the least amount as possible.

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