Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Jan
28
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“…You Are Here For A Pregnancy Scan, Right?”
“You can’t be serious, you are here for a pregnancy scan right?” – Ultrasound tech when mother mentioned to her husband that the trans-vaginal wand looked uncomfortable.
There are 126 comments to this post.
I don’t know about other husbands, but my husband is not made of metal. Pretty sure most others aren’t either.
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road2vba2c Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 1:02 pm (Quote)
Even when they’re partially made of metal, they still have skin on the outside.
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Before I had one of those lovely devices stuck inside me, I asked the doctor if it hurt. It looked uncomfortable to me! She gave me kind of a weird look and said something about it being similar to putting in a tampon. My tampons don’t look like that, doc!
Interestingly, I have never “needed” one of those exams done to confirm a pregnancy with my second two children. My first doctors must have had different ideas…
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I will be really curious to know why a transvaginal ultrasound was being done on a pregnant woman.
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Krista Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 11:23 am (Quote)
I had one done at 7 weeks to confirm my pregnancy. Not a pee test, not a blood test, a transvaginal ultrasound.
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JessicaKC Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 11:26 am (Quote)
There was no way to know my dates since I don;t have periods. Must have gotten pregnant on my first one after losing a bunch of weight. My blood test was saying 12 weeks but trans vag us said 7, and that turned out to be correct. No way to find out otherwise.
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Tee Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 3:44 pm (Quote)
They couldn’t have done an abdominal ultrasound to date? I understand the need for an ultrasound. What I don’t understand is why a doctor would jump straight to a transvaginal ultrasound.
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JessicaKC Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 5:00 pm (Quote)
I do not think the belly ones can pick it up… I asked and they said it didn’t work.I guess it get’s closer to the action with less tissue in between.
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Laurel Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 6:16 am (Quote)
When we lived in Germany, it was standard procedure to have dildocam ultrasounds until almost the 2nd trimester because it would be easier to see the baby. Granted, I had a few by then because I had problems with miscarriages, but it was standard to use one to date the pregnancy in any case.
I am not very “fluffy” – it was just the way things were done. The OB could try a trans-abdominal ultrasound but usually it was just easier to get the dildocam out since it provided better results each time.
Yes, I called it a dildocam. Not to the OB, who might not have gotten it since she was older and German, but to my husband and everyone else. But I’m weird like that.
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adrienne Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 7:30 pm (Quote)
wait til baby comes out. I had one pregnancy where we had no dates for me at all, still managed to make it through with no ultrasound. we guessed at dates based on onset of sickness, fundal height mid-pregnancy, etc. but the best telltale sign was going into labor.
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Chelsea Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 9:38 pm (Quote)
That’s what we’re doing for the second time. I caught the first post postpartum egg with dd2 and managed to catch the first egg again with this baby. Haven’t had a period since 2007.
I was paying attention to cramps and cervical mucus though so I’m pretty sure of my dates this time and I obviously was right with my last daughter because she was born close to my predicted date of arrival. All I had to go on with her were cramps. 
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JessicaKC Reply:
February 1st, 2012 at 3:44 pm (Quote)
I had several reasons for needing to know before I went into labor I was told I could not get pregnant, and I was on the hCG diet so everyone was worried it was that and not pregnancy (which is impossible if you understand the diet and the amount of hormone injected) and after trying for four years, God was it good to see that heart beat! Next time with be with a midwife and I doubt I will have any. But with my son, I had to know.
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Holly Reply:
February 6th, 2012 at 12:47 am (Quote)
Some women can’t simply “just wait”. Some of us have a history of preterm labor. So “just wait until labor” could produce a twenty week baby. Knowing dates and therefore knowing if it is safe for baby to be born is vital.
I have little to no periods. So no going by last period.
I have preterm labor starting at 20-25 weeks and require medication to retain pregnancy.
I have preterm labor ending in a baby born at 36-37 weeks.
I have gestational diabetes with boys and HG with girls. Knowing my datres is important to *me* to know how much longer I have to suffer.
Knowing that my child is *safe* to come or *not safe* to come is important to me.
Please don’t be so quick to dismiss those who have a medical need to know the dates and can’t just “wait until baby is born”. For YOU that might be ok, it is NOT ok for everyone.
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Rachel Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 12:33 pm (Quote)
I had one done at my nt scan for my third pregnancy. The ultra sound tech was having difficulty getting a good position using the regular machine and was able to do so with the trans vag us. I never had one for either of my previous pregnancies but they’re hardly rare during a pregnancy either.
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Tee Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 3:45 pm (Quote)
Now this situation I understand. They tried doing an abdominal ultrasound on you and were not able to get the imaging they needed, so they moved on to the more sensitive test.
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Jade Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 6:52 pm (Quote)
I have had them with both pregnancies (after an abdominal one couldn’t pick up what we needed) and also when I was having unexplained abdominal pain 9as well as an abdominal one to see if either could shed light on why)
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Jade Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 10:39 pm (Quote)
If I was gointo have dating scan for any future pregnancies I would request a transvaginal one because I have difficulty with the full bladder required for the trans abdominal one. I have poor bladder control and for both of my full term pregnancies I have had hyperemesis which makes getting the water in almost impossible and then keeping it in (I tend to lose it at either/both ends) challenging too 
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Katy Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 12:36 pm (Quote)
I had one for my current pregnancy at the dating scan. I didn’t have one for my first pregnancy. I was a little shocked too. My OB said it was because he needed better pictures of my ovaries and tubes. It might have been a bunch of hooey, but he’s pretty trustworthy in telling me why he does things, so maybe he just couldn’t see well with the normal wand.
However, he let me direct the wand so I had a little control over the uncomfortableness.
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Nica Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 12:45 pm (Quote)
Beyond the about five million I’ve had done for my IF treatments and issues with ovarian cysts, I had one done at my 20 wk u/s to confirm my low-lying placenta had moved away completely from my cervix.
I know other pg women who have had them when they’ve had cervical problems and/or surgeries to be sure all is ok.
I personally don’t find them uncomfortable in the least, but I can definitely understand how someone might.
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Tee Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 3:48 pm (Quote)
I’ve had a ton of them done, too, although for different reasons. (Never ending endo.) I find them horribly uncomfortable, downright painful even, but I am pretty sensitive to things of that nature. And I can understand the need for one in the pregnancy you described. But the quote above very much made it sound like this doctor does them routinely for pregnancy and that I don’t understand.
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Jesica Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 1:01 pm (Quote)
If you have trouble conceiving and are seeing an RE and finally get pregnant you get a transvaginal at 6 weeks and 8 weeks and some even beyond that at 10 weeks. I’ve had a million of those bad boys done on me and to be fair they really aren’t uncomfortable, though they definitely LOOK uncomfortable and that’s no excuse for the Dr.’s comment about it.
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amy Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 1:47 pm (Quote)
From what I understand my doctor orders them for all of her patients for ‘dating and viability’. I had the magic experience of getting to have two! hooray! my first one showed the baby measuring 5 weeks 6 days…and my doctor decided this must mean the baby had died because according to LMP the baby should have been 7 weeks something. I had already told her that I had just gotten off birth control and my LMP hadn’t been a real one and my cycles weren’t normal yet. I also told her that my cycles off birth control were closer to 35 days. the ultrasound tech was certain everything was fine, but my doctor ordered a second one a week later, after calling me to tell me all the ways we could evacuate if the baby had died. yeah, a week later the sonogram showed a baby a week bigger than the last one.
yeah, I’m find a new doctor or midwife.
can you tell I’m still kind of angry about this?
my mom had three healthy children and never had a sonogram with any of us. I’m starting to regret going in for the early ones. there was no reason to think anything was wrong. While it was wonderful and affirming to see the baby’s heartbeat, the whole process caused me more stress that I have ever experienced in my entire life.
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Tee Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 4:00 pm (Quote)
I really appreciate everyone’s responses! To be clear, I don’t have a problem with abdominal ultrasounds for dating and whatnot. I understand that that is pretty typical. What I didn’t understand is why a doctor would routinely order transvaginal ultrasounds. There is a small risk associated with them. Like everything else in this field, they can be great when they are actually needed and warranted. It’s when they are routine that it concerns me. Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear the first time around!
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Angelica Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 7:00 pm (Quote)
They did mine to confirm a pregnancy the abdominal ultrasound didn’t see.
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Tee Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 7:50 pm (Quote)
Out of curiosity, do you mind me asking how far along you were? I know that’s kind of personal so feel free to decline to answer.
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genniemom Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 7:45 am (Quote)
Just to add to your informal poll, Tee, I have had several vaginal ultrasounds done. My first was during my first pregnancy when I was miscarrying. It confirmed the miscarriage and it hurt so much! I think if a miscarriage is happening, the wand if more painful. I was sent home to finish miscarrying naturally. I had a healthy pregnancy after that and didn’t have an ultrasound until the gender determining abdominal one. After my son was born, I waited until he was about two and got pregnant again. I set my first appointment for ten weeks, but on the day of my appointment I began bleeding. I had a painful vaginal exam and an ultrasound was ordered. They tried abdominal, but couldn’t get a clear pic. Tranvaginal confirmed I was miscarrying. I went home and miscarried naturally again. Without another period, I became pregnant again. I went in to the doctor for hcg levels because I thought it would help me to have more information. They were not viable. Another vaginal ultrasound confirmed no heartbeat. I miscarried naturally within a week. I got pregnant again on my next ultrasound (I had been planning to wait another cycle, but I was not careful.) I had been scheduled to run some tests. My OB had already tested my thyroid and blood clotting factors, which came up normal. I had never had a baby tested because I didn’t have D&Cs and I just couldn’t bring myself to give my babies to the hospital to be tested for genetic abnormalities. My OB hypothesized that I probably have a uterine septum, causing me to miscarry whenever I have a pregnancy on the smaller side. Instead of the hysteroscopy I was supposed to schedule, I had more hcg levels done. They appeared viable. I declined a vaginal ultrasound and had an abdominal done at ten weeks. I saw a tiny baby waving his little mitten hand at me! I then transferred to a midwife and had a homebirth! Sometimes I worry about my septum, but I’m not sure what I want to do about it. Having it removed has risks to me, and may cause some uterine scarring, but not having it removed leaves my miscarriage rate much higher than normal, and I’m not sure how much I can take, especially thinking I might have done something about it. Sorry this was so long!
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j_holmes88 Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 8:50 pm (Quote)
I had two vaginal ultrasounds. Once to check for etopic because I was having pain, and the second was a routin ultrasound that my Ob office gives for dating perposes. I didn’t have any pain from it or spotting and i was just wondering what is the average for that.
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I have bad anxiety with any vaginal exam, and had this done for PCOS confirmation and then pregnancy confirmation. Both times I was treated like a crazy person. I do not know why they do not get it. I didn’t even fear any pain, but just hate people putting things in me!
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When I went in for my transvaginal ultrasound, my OB noticed that I looked worried and softly explained to me that only a few inches were going in and that she would use a lot of lubricant. She made the whole experience quite peaceful and made sure to ask me multiple times if I was comfortable.
That’s the way it should be done.
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Many OBs use a transvaginal US to verify that the pregnancy is in the uterus and not in a tube or elsewhere. They really aren’t necessary, but doctors are always covering their backside.
But the response from the technician should have been something like “I know that looks scary, but it usually doesn’t hurt. If I hurt you, I want you to let me know immediately. I don’t want it to hurt”. This validates the mother’s feelings and lets her know she has a reasonable amount of control.
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I think it depends on the practice if they’re done. My ob’s office has their own u/s machine, so I think they tend to do more because it’s mostly instantaneous for them. They did one at my first appointment to verify viability, location, number of babies, and check dates.
To the OP, that’s a perfectly normal thing to be worried about since the wands are huge, and that was completely insensitive thing to say. When will medical personnel realize that just because they do something several times a day means that everyone is as familiar with something as they are?
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I am able to tolerate vaginal checks very well, I would say. But the transvaginal thingy was a LOT more uncomfortable than I’d thought it’d be. I needed it because I got pregnant and had no idea when my LMP was. It sounds stupid for somebody who had three kids and had been married for 10 years, but I had been sick and so I really hadn’t been paying attention. I was just trying to survive until I felt better!
Fortunately, we were able to get a good estimate of the date for the baby.
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To echo others explaining why this is used for a pregnancy scan, I had one each at weeks 6, 7, and 8. 6 and 8 to confirm/date/check that things wereas they should be, and week 7 b/c I’d passed a huge clot and they wanted to check that the heartbeat was still there (it was!) With the right tech, the dildocam isn’t bad at all, but you get one careless tech and things get “uncomfortable” real fast.
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When I was pregnant with my second child they wanted to do one on me at 10 weeks. I told them I would only consent to it if they couldn’t find a heartbeat using a transabdominal ultrasound. They ended up not needing the transvaginal ultrasound after all.
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You know, we really need to have like a forum here.
Another question for the ladies here who probably know a bit more on the subject than me. It is preferable that I have a dating scan because of irregular periods (3 week cycle one month, 7 week cycle the next). But can a dating scan be done with the traditional ultrasound machine, or is it too early in the pregnancy to be able to use that one? I can’t have a vaginal one because of vulvodynia, I can tell it just wouldn’t work, so is it even possible for me to get a dating scan or do I just need to chance it with a best guess for my ovulation time
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IF Survivor Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 2:23 pm (Quote)
If you chart, your best guess at ovulation is probably accurate but you should be able to do a dating scan at 12 wks without the transvaginal. I’d just tell them that if they decide you’re not as far along and would normally switch to transvaginal, that you’d prefer to just come back in a week or two.
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Kristy Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 3:17 pm (Quote)
I’ve had ‘regular’ ultrasounds done for dating with two of my pregnancies because my cycle was all over the place (still nursing). They worked just fine. Of course I *was* around 12-15 weeks when they were done… but do they really *have* to know exactly how far along you are before that? I can’t see any reason to ‘peek’ till later if you aren’t having any obvious problem.
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adrienne Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 7:43 pm (Quote)
I second charting for fertility. I have irregular cycles, and I chart, and I have always come up with a due date for myself (except the one time I wasn’t charting). however there is really no reason to have a due DATE. the earliest ultrasound that can be done abdominally should give a decent idea and as for that, make sure you’ve got a nice patient care provider that won’t freak out about a specific date. I mentioned in a comment above, the one pregnancy I didn’t have a date for, we just guessed and found out for sure when I went into labor.
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I was surprised and pleased that we were able to do an abdominal ultrasound at 10w6d with this pregnancy when we couldn’t find a heartbeat (and I have PCOS and a hx of early loss)… I thought it was early enough they’d still want to use a transvag. Oh yeah, and that’s with me being fat, too. 
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This is mine.
I went in for my first appointment with my midwife when I assumed myself to be between 11 and 13 weeks along in my pregnancy. I was having no nausea, my uterus was feeling quite small, and some of my other symptoms had abruptly ceased. We also could not detect a heartbeat. Because of all this I was sent to the local ultrasound place (my midwives do not have one in house) for a viability scan. This was a very wanted pregnancy and I was bawling most of the way there out of sheer terror. In an effort not to cry, I joked with my husband about the “ultrasound dildo” as we call it. The lovely tech came out with this gem. She proceded to push it into me with some force and was in general quite rough. When she saw the baby she also said “oh yeah, that is way, way, smaller than eleven weeks. wow, very small” I had been to scared to look at the screen and started bawling again instantly. She then asked what I was crying about because “theres the heartbeat” like I should have seen it already. It was a horrible painful experience. She acted like my husband was not even there even when he asked to hear the heartbeat, and was just a jerk all around. I reported her to my midwife. I am now about seventeen weeks along and baby is perfectly healthy, my dates were just very wrong. Not only am I thankful because we want this baby, but because I cant imagine what she would have said if the baby had died.
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Jessicakc Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 5:09 pm (Quote)
I’m so sorry for your experience, but so happy everything is well now! What a jerk. Good for you for reporting her!!!!
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Lindsay Kelley Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 6:44 pm (Quote)
I am so glad to hear everything is ok! I had a nasty ultrasound tech who was far from delicate with the probe tell me I had lost my baby. It was the most horrible experience Of my life.
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Rachel Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 7:30 pm (Quote)
I am glad to hear everything is okay.
I’m surprised she was allowed to say anything. We had a miscarriage scare with our younger daughter, and both the first ultra sound (where the tech couldn’t get a picture of a fetus–and this was my third pregnancy, so I could tell something was up) and then the second a week later (when the tech was clearly getting a heartbeat), the techs were not allowed to share any diagnosis with us at all, we were supposed to talk to the doctor.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 28, 2012 @ 7:05 pm (Quote)
I can’t believe some people commenting here said that a transvaginal ultrasound is “not necessary.” It saved my life and the life of my daughter because I had an ectopic pregnancy (her fraternal twin). Eventually we underwent an ultrasound-guided injection procedure and saplingectomy. If my doctor had not decided to use an ultrasound to date the pregnancy, I would have had to wait for the pain of a potential ruptured fallopian tube. Likely go into an emergency operation that could have killed my healthy baby (and possibly my chances of ever getting pregnant again). In my opinion, all women should get a transvaginal early obstetric ultrasound to make sure everything is progressing normally and to properly date the pregnancy. I agree with some other comments though: I had over 20 ultrasounds that pregnancy (almost all transvaginal) and never once was the ultrasound technician or radiologist rude like this one was.
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Kristy Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 7:13 pm (Quote)
I suppose we should all get routine MRIs as well in case we get a brain tumor. I’m sorry… but I don’t think the fact that a test will catch an abnormality that *rarely* occurs means *every* person needs that test.
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Tee Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 7:54 pm (Quote)
If my comment(s) upset you, I’m sorry about that. It was not my intention to upset anyone. But I have to stand by what I said. Abdominal ultrasounds are safer early in pregnancy than transvaginal ultrasounds.
In one of my comments, I said that I thought it was wonderful that the technology of an transvaginal ultrasound was available when it was really needed, as opposed to being a routine test. I firmly believe that and I’m glad that your ectopic was picked up quickly. I’m sorry for your loss, Jennifer, and I’m very glad that you never had anyone be so rude to you.
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Aron Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 5:41 am (Quote)
I am really sorry you went through such a scary experience. However, sometimes ectopic pregnancies can be found via abdominal ultrasound, and they do carry less risk. Transvaginal u/s is useful when you can’t get a clear picture otherwise, but the evidence doesn’t support using them as a first choice or as a blanket procedure on all pregnant women.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 28, 2012 @ 7:19 pm (Quote)
Just to clarify, every time I had a transvaginal ultrasound they first tried an abdominal ultrasound. Especially at 6 weeks (when I first had one done) they cannot see the baby nor can they detect a heartbeat. In addition, if the doctors are trying to see your ovaries and fallopian tubes, this is not really adequately done using an abdominal ultrasound. As your uterus grows during pregnancy, it actually gets more and more difficult to view the ovaries and fallopian tubes abdominally. While I only found the transvaginal ultrasound to be marginally uncomfortable, it is unnerving that sometimes they caused spotting. Mine were very needed and will be in the future as well.
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Jane Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 12:23 pm (Quote)
Jennifer, it sounds as if you were having symptoms and that’s why multiple ultrasounds were attempted. There’s a HUGE difference between performing multiple ultrasound scans via different routes in order to track down the source of bleeding or pain (for example) versus insisting that every woman have a transvaginal ultrasound scan as a matter of course.
I’ve never had a scan in early pregnancy. I’ve also never had any symptoms that would warrant a scan. To me that seems like appropriate medical care. It would be inappropriate to deny a woman a scan when she presented with symptoms indicating further testing was needed; it’s also inappropriate to order a scan for every pregnant woman who has no need of one.
These tests aren’t without drawbacks. First there’s the cost, which is shouldered by everyone (either the government or by the insurance company — and it’s then passed back to the general public). But also there’s the “cost” in terms of the stress on the women undergoing the test, the overscheduling of the machines and the technicians (which might mean women who need a test NOW can’t get access to it because women are having one “just ‘cuz”) and also the human cost in terms of false positive diagnoses. I know people who’ve had ultrasound tests that indicated their babies had all sorts of horrible conditions and were pressured to terminate the pregnancy…only to find out five weeks later that the baby was actually fine. We’ve had women on this group whose doctors declared a viable pregnancy unviable and pressured them to have a D&C.
I’m sorry for your loss, and I’m sorry you had the experience you did. I’m not sure, however, that a transvaginal ultrasound for every woman in the first six weeks is the way to go.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 28, 2012 @ 8:00 pm (Quote)
Actually, ectopic pregnancies occur much more frequently than you seem to think (certainly more than brain tumors). I had *no* risk factors when it happened to me (and today my only risk factor is a previous ectopic). There are other complications that an early obstetric ultrasound detects. A friend of mine is pregnant with very high risk twins and never would have known without one. I don’t take lightly the health of my baby, myself, and my fertility (in that order). Nice of you to marginalize the importance this early obstetric transvaginal ultrasound has for women who choose to receive one. For everyone wondering, the earlier you get an ultrasound, the more accurate medical professionals can be in dating your pregnancy.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 28, 2012 @ 8:05 pm (Quote)
According to the American Pregnancy Association, about 64000 women in the United States every year have an ectopic pregnancy. That’s not to be taken lightly in my opinion. That’s not taking into consideration the global rate of ectopic pregnancy or the global mortality rate associated with it either. That’s not considering all of the other conditions that can be detected early on in a pregnancy. I’m not saying everyone wants one, just that because it can save lives for those who opt for one it is not at all unnecessary.
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Kristy Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 9:03 pm (Quote)
A test is only ‘necessary’ if it finds something. For the vast majority of women the test *is* unnecessary. Lowering the bar on what complications are considered so ‘common’ that the normal course of pregnancy *must* include this ‘necessary’ test/procedure is one of the things that brought us to today’s doctors doing dangerous interventions on every woman to save them from every potential ‘what if’. The test can be recommended… but it is *not* necessary for every woman and it is not without risk.
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Mama Wrench Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 1:45 pm (Quote)
The point she’s trying to make is that there’s no way to know whether it’s necessary or not unless you get it done and it shows no problems. If you choose not to get it done there’s no way to know whether it’s necessary unless you have a problem which can be very serious, occur very quickly and occur without warning. Statistically, yes, most women don’t need a scan for the purpose of diagnosis of ectopic pregnancy, but the truth is that you simply don’t know unless you get the scan. I wouldn’t compare early u/s to most other procedures and treatments routinely prescribed during pregnancy because most of them can be done via other means (for instance, the GD test can be skipped in lieu of daily blood sugar checks; gestation dating can be skipped in favor of fundal measuring; latter ultrasound can be skipped in favor of a fetoscope; etc). There’s really no reliable way to check for ectopic pregnancy before complications arise without an early ultrasound.
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Jane Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 1:58 pm (Quote)
How many doctors even will see a newly-pregnant mom before 8 weeks? Most practices won’t schedule that first appt until 8 weeks, and I’ve heard of some that push it back to 12 weeks.
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Kristy Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 2:08 pm (Quote)
And that was also my point. A test is unnecessary which is ‘not necessary’… by definition. A ‘necessary’ test? What is the definition of necessary???
You look it up you start finding words like ‘compulsory’ and ‘absolutely needed’. For the vast majority of pregnancies it is *not* needed… so it *is not* ‘absolutely needed’. And I do not think we need to give the docs any more ‘ammo’ on considering things which are not absolutely needed *compulsory* for all women!
You (meaning, the doctor) want to talk me into one using the *possiblity* of an ectopic pregnancy?… fine, have a go at it. But be prepared to convince me there is a good chance I am at risk for an ectopic pregnancy or show signs of having a potential ectopic pregnancy. Otherwise do not try and tell me it is a ‘necessary’ test. Because it is *not* absolutely needed for me to have a healthy child… billions of healthy children throughout history have been born without the aid of this test and I have no interest in the cost or risk of getting what is *most likely* an unnecessary test.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 28, 2012 @ 8:13 pm (Quote)
Tee, my comments were not directed at you. I did find some other people’s to be condescending and demeaning though.
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Tee Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 8:50 pm (Quote)
Thanks for letting me know. Tone can be hard to read on the internet and I’m always concerned that I’ll come across wrong! There are times that I find certain comments on this site to be somewhat rude as well.
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Vanessa Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 9:37 pm (Quote)
Do you have any links to articles about the difference in risk between abdominal and transvag u/s? I know that there are some studies out there that might link u/s to lower growth, but I don’t see how that would be impacted by abdominal versus transvag?
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Jade Reply:
January 28th, 2012 at 10:32 pm (Quote)
The difference in risk is because of the physical trauma to the cervix. I think it would be hard to quantify that risk because it varies between providers but in short an abdominal ultrasound does not involve pushing, stretching, prodding anyhting internal whereas a transcaginal one involves strtching the vagina in all directions but more importantly can bang the cervix around a fair bit.
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Tee Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 12:18 am (Quote)
I’d be happy to look up the articles tomorrow and post the links here for you. I’d do it tonight but I’m literally falling asleep sitting up! But Jade is right with the biggest concern of them.
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Jade Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 4:15 am (Quote)
WOW, I made way too many typing mistakes in that reply but whatever lol.
I would be interested in the articles too Tee because although I am (obviously) aware of the risk, I have not been able to find any articles that actually support my case. Only logic
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Heather had this to say,
Jan 29, 2012 @ 1:24 am (Quote)
64,000 women out of the estimated 4 million women giving birth every year in the US, it’s a big number but a small small percentage. A little more than 1.6%. Plus that doesn’t cover how many are carrying a viable twin.
I wouldn’t endorse early transvaginal ultrasound for EVERY woman, but whoever wants one done certainly can.
Glad it helped you with your ectopic pregnancy.
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I had two transvaginal ultrasounds at the beginning of each of my pregnancies. The ones at my first appointments were to date the pregnancy, the ones at my second appointments were to see the heartbeat . I am a fairly large woman and it is not possible to “see” the babies with abdominal ultrasounds at first nor to hear the babies heartbeats with a doppler until I am past 12 weeks. With my last pregnancy she also did a very quick transvaginal ultrasound at 37 or so weeks to make sure that baby had turned head down.
These ultrasounds were not performed by techs, but were done by the OB themselves in their office. The only time I found them uncomfortable was when the doctor had to have me hold the probe at one point because she accidentally unplugged something.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 29, 2012 @ 3:15 pm (Quote)
Jane, *obviously* I had so many transvaginal ultrasounds due to complications. However, the *first* transvaginal ultrasound was done because an abdominal ultrasound failed to find my pregnancy. The transvaginal ultrasound showed a healthy intrauterine pregnancy at 5 weeks and an ectopic pregnancy. Without this first scan, the problem would not have been detected in time (before pain associated with rupture was occurring). I will state again, I had no risk factors at the time.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 29, 2012 @ 3:28 pm (Quote)
Kristy, I never said it should be a compulsory or mandatory test. Women can opt out of this (or other prenatal tests) if they choose to (or if abdominal ultrasounds are able to detect or rule out problems). This isn’t just for ectopic pregnancies, but for numerous potential complications (and in the case of the friend I mentioned earlier, it identifies twins). Yes, plenty of healthy children are born every year. Millions of women and their children globally die with pregnancy and childbirth related conditions as well.
Complications can and do happen, women should know what they are and have the *option* to test for them. I originally commented to point out that transvaginal ultrasounds are vital for many women when abdominal ultrasounds fail to detect a pregnancy or pregnancy-related complications.
[Reply]
Kristy Reply:
January 29th, 2012 at 3:51 pm (Quote)
Originally you stated uncatagorically that it was your opinion that “all women should get a transvaginal early obstetric ultrasound.” Even if we leave them the ‘option’ to refuse we are telling them they are wrong to refuse if it is considered ‘necessary’ for all women.
Even in your case you received it because the abdominal ultrasound was inconclusive… and now state after abdominal ultrasounds fail to detect a pregnancy is when they become ‘vital’ for *many* (but I would again say that is hardly ‘all’ or even most) women.
I know I get ‘stuck’ on words… but this one just really bugs me. Calling a test ‘necessary’ just seems to be a dangerous roadblock to informed consent. It has a chance of finding problems… sure… but ‘necessary’ to me implies that it *should* be mandatory and that the patient is a bad mother if she questions the doctor at all.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 29, 2012 @ 3:34 pm (Quote)
To clarify, I had *NO* symptoms, risk factors, medical history, or family history that indicated *ANY* complications with my pregnancy. An abdominal ultrasound was performed but could not detect my pregnancy. A transvaginal ultrasound was used to find and date my intrauterine pregnancy. In the process, an ectopic pregnancy was found.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 29, 2012 @ 4:06 pm (Quote)
Saying that all women *should* get a transvaginal ultrasound is NOT the same thing as saying that all women *must* get one. Women have the option to opt out of tests! Also, I received one because the abdominal was inconclusive and I’m so very thankful it was. Otherwise, without my transvaginal ultrasound, my daughter (the intrauterine pregnancy) almost certainly would have died when the rupture of my fallopian tube began to happen. Also, I could have died and/or my future fertility destroyed by an emergency operation. I was *lucky* to receive a transvaginal ultrasound and I believe that a small but statistically significant portion of women and their children with complications matter.
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Toni Reply:
January 30th, 2012 at 9:02 am (Quote)
Yes, women have the right to opt out of tests. And docs have the right to fire any patient they choose. You (universal “you” here) make the dildocam “standard” and that’s just one more thing to have to fight about, and one more thing to get “fired” over. I’ve had 3 pregnancies and never needed an u/s prior to 17 weeks. It helps that I’ve never had any “scary” symptoms (bleeding, cramping, pain, etc) and that I am always very sure of my dates. Yes. Yes. YES! Transvag u/s has its place and can be very useful. But it is not necessary and should not be “standard” or something you have to opt out of. If you are not sure of your dates, if you are having symptoms of a potential problem, if you have a history of m/c (if for no other reason than peace of mind), sure, by all means report your symptoms/request an early scan. But why add one more G.D. thing for women to have to “refuse”? You never mentioned why you were having an early scan done in the first place, may I ask why?
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 29, 2012 @ 4:21 pm (Quote)
In addition, while 64000 women per year with an ectopic pregnancy in the US alone is NOT a small number to me (although statistically speaking it is). Approximately 1.6 percent of pregnancies (a statistic given by someone else here) means 16 out of every 1000 pregnant women, or 1-2 per every 100. Not to mention all of the other complications that can be detected by a transvaginal ultrasound.
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That would be 1.6% of 4 million (according to the other poster). Which is 4 out of every 1000 pregnant women, or 0.4 of every 100, which is not many at all.
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A-non-a-mouse had this to say,
Jan 29, 2012 @ 10:05 pm (Quote)
Transvaginal ultrasounds are invasive. Invasive procedures should never EVER be routine. Transvaginal ultrasounds carry the risk of causing a miscarriage due to trauma on the cervix.
In addition some diagnosis of ectopic pregnancies aren’t accurate. In the early weeks before implantation or even if the pregnancy occurs close to the opening, the baby can be viable because it can migrate to the uterus. I wonder how many unnecessary abortions have been performed because a mom’s ectopic pregnancy was diagnosed too soon.
[Reply]
Cat Reply:
January 30th, 2012 at 1:42 pm (Quote)
1. A transvaginal ultrasound transducer does not touch the cervix. If it does, then whoever is doing the scan is doing it wrong.
2. Cervical “trauma” as you use it here does not increase the risk of miscarriage. You would have to literally be shoving the wand so far up the woman that it ruptures her cervix and blasts into her uterus for there to be any risk of miscarriage.
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Jade Reply:
January 30th, 2012 at 4:42 pm (Quote)
1. A transvaginal ultrasound most certainly touches the cervix, it goes right of it, left of it,front and back and all around over and over again, all while pushing at varying degrees of pressure in order to get the picture.
2. if cervical trauma didn’t carry a (VERY VERY small) risk of miscarriage then women would never be told to avoid sex for a part of their pregnancies. And it isn’t just because orgasm induces uterine contractions because plenty of women are told to avoid sex altogether and only engage in external stimulation.
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A-non-a-mouse: Procedures and surgeries done for ectopic pregnancies are *NOT* abortions!!! How *DARE* you even suggest that. Here are the choices if you have an ectopic pregnancy: 1. Wait for your fallopian tube to rupture, followed by internal bleeding that *will* kill you (most likely in under 30 minutes). 2. Undergo medical intervention, at varying degrees of invasiveness depending on the situation. They are not at all likely to be “misdiagnosed” because they do a *series* of ultrasounds to check for things such as status of implantation, size of fallopian tube, potential age/development/heartbeat/placenta tissue of pregnancy, and location within the fallopian tube. And yes, we discussed all of those factors and more with our OB, other OBs in his practice, his OB residents, and numerous radiologists. Plus, by the time a woman finds out she’s pregnant, sees a doctor, and gets an ultrasound, the period in which implantation occurs has passed. To let you know, ectopic pregnancies implanted partially in the uterus and partially in the fallopian tube are actually *more* dangerous because, due to proximity to the uterus, the bleeding upon rupture is even more severe. I know because they discussed reasons for checking on mine’s location and found it to be near the middle of the tube.
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Alice Reply:
February 8th, 2012 at 11:40 pm (Quote)
A-non wasn’t saying treating an ectopic pregnancy is an unnecessary abortion. She was saying that she was wondering how many abortions of would-be-healthy pregnancies happen due to an early diagnosis of an ectopic pregnancy that would have fixed itself, or because of a complete misdiagnosis.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:27 am (Quote)
I mentioned why I was having a scan *numerous* times here. I said that I had an abdominal ultrasound at 5 weeks. When they could not find the pregnancy, they did a transvaginal ultrasound. They found my intrauterine pregnancy, as well as an ectopic pregnancy. Like I have stated many times, I had *NO* symptoms, risk factors, medical history, or family history that indicated *ANY* problems. It is important to note that by the time symptoms of ectopic pregnancy arise, a woman is already experiencing a medical emergency. By discovering an ectopic pregnancy early, I was able to get the least invasive treatment options rather than an emergency surgery. I cannot stress enough how seeking medical help for an ectopic pregnancy is *NOT* the same thing as having an abortion *AT ALL*. A woman with an ectopic pregnancy receives injection procedures into the fallopian tube and/or cutting or removal of the fallopian tube. This is not the same procedure as an abortion and is done to save the woman’s life. A baby cannot develop in a fallopian tube.
[Reply]
Toni Reply:
January 31st, 2012 at 1:03 pm (Quote)
Actually you never once mentioned why you were at the doctor at 5 weeks pregnant, nor why you were getting an u/s so early on (abdominal or transvaginal, an early u/s is an early u/s). I was wondering what was going on that you were in to see someone before 8-10 weeks (standard time for first appt) and why you were having ANY sort of u/s done so early. It’s just not customary practice, at least not where I am.
You had a heterotopic pregnancy (one viable, intrauterine embroyo and one non-viable, ectopic embroyo). This is excedingly rare, usually only occuring in those using fertility treatments. Fertility treatments are often considered a risk factor for ectopic pregnancy (and would explain how on earth you got in to see anyone at 5 weeks, lol). With all due respect, maybe you weren’t as a low risk as you thought… at any rate you are obviously high risk for ectopic in future pregnancies, so your decision to get early scans from here on out is certainly prudent.
“It is important to note that by the time symptoms of ectopic pregnancy arise, a woman is already experiencing a medical emergency. ”
Not necessarily so. The first signs are unusual vag bleeding and/or mild to moderate abdominal pain (similar to symptoms of miscarriage, which is why it is so frustrating to me to see posts here about doctors telling women over the phone that they are miscarrying and dismissing the woman’s concerns; early on ectopic pregnancy have identical symptoms to miscarriage and so any bleeding or pain should be evaluated). There is usually ample time to get in to see your doctor (same day or next day appt) and often surgery isn’t needed at all; rather, medication (methotrexate I do believe) can often be used to terminate ectopic pregnancy. Typically there is ample time for tests to be run and any surgery, if needed, can be planned. Obviously any woman experiencing unusual symptoms should report these immediately and if they get severe, or if there are any signs of shock, that is a sign that the tube has ruptured and that IS a bona fide emergency (911 or ER worthy).
Now, I never mentioned “abortion” at all. You seem rather defensive on that point, but I do have to note that terminating ANY pregnancy (viable, non-viable, spontaneously or electively) is technically an “abortion”. I know that is inconvenient terminology for pro-lifers, but it is medically correct terminology. The methods for performing abortion vary widely depending on the stage of pregnancy (everything from medications to surgery). No one is suggesting that you elected to terminate a viable pregnancy (not that I would have a problem with it if you had, I’m pro-choice), so I’m not sure where the defensiveness is coming from. Just keep in mind that if the extreme anti-choicers have thier way, terminating even non viable, life endangering ectopic pregnancies could soon become illegal (they are abortions afterall). So, before you get all up in arms about terminology, the fact is, an abortion may very well have saved your life. I’ll get off my soap box on that part of things now
[Reply]
Jennifer,
I don’t think she meant “abortion” in the political, hot-button sense of the word.
Miscarriages are technically spontaneous abortions. I don’t think at all, she was implying you decided to go down to the local clinic and selectively reduce your pregnancy.
I, too, was pregnant with twins. I, too, found out about them via transvaginal ultrasound. One of my babies had already passed. He/She ended up reabsorbing during the course of the pregnancy.
So while not an ectopic, I know the pain of losing a twin. As do too many of us. I’m glad your experience turned out as well as possible. I think everyone needs to ratchet the definsiveness down a peg or 8.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 31, 2012 @ 4:10 pm (Quote)
I have stated why I was having a scan- once again, to date my pregnancy. I’m not sure about all of you, but the moment my home pregnancy test showed I was pregnant, I immediately sought prenatal care. An ultrasound was ordered to date my pregnancy when I couldn’t do so through charting. It’s FUNNY to you that a woman would seek medical care?! I was *NOT* (nor have I ever) used *ANY* fertility drugs. I know I had a heterotopic pregnancy thanks. I also know that ectopic pregnancies are not rare. Medications for ectopic pregnancies are administered through needle using an ultrasound guided procedure and cannot be done by a woman on herself. Actually, once an ectopic pregnancy is causing bleeding (which never occurred in my case) it *IS* a medical emergency and *NO* doctor is going to wait until the next day without admitting a woman to hospital. I, once again rude lady, did NOT have an abortion!!! I underwent two medical procedures to save my life!!! For your information, I know a woman who had an ectopic pregnancy in the 1950s (before abortion was legal) and she underwent surgery. It was not considered, nor is it today considered, an abortion.
[Reply]
Toni Reply:
February 2nd, 2012 at 10:41 am (Quote)
“..to date my pregnancy.”
Okay. Apparently I missed that. I immediately sought prenatal care too (at 5 weeks, when I got a pos home preg test), but like I said, where I am it is standard to go in for your first visit betwen 8 and 10 weeks, unless you are having a problem. That’s why I asked why you were in there so early. It’s nice that you have an OB that isn’t very busy and is willing to see you so soon.
I’m not sure why you need to be charting to know the date of your LMP, but that’s a whole other topic….
“It’s FUNNY to you that a woman would seek medical care?!”
It is funny how defensive you are. Lol.
“I was *NOT* (nor have I ever) used *ANY* fertility drugs. ”
Would it be a terrible thing if you had? Just curious.
“I know I had a heterotopic pregnancy thanks.”
Ummm. You’re welcome?
“I also know that ectopic pregnancies are not rare.”
But heterotopic pregnancies are exceedingly rare.
“Medications for ectopic pregnancies are administered through needle using an ultrasound guided procedure and cannot be done by a woman on herself.”
Who said they could?
“Actually, once an ectopic pregnancy is causing bleeding (which never occurred in my case) it *IS* a medical emergency and *NO* doctor is going to wait until the next day without admitting a woman to hospital.”
Really? Cuz LOTS of women report vag bleeding early on and are given regular doc appts either same day or next day, with orders to report to the ER if the bleeding gets heavy or if there are other symptoms. Hmmmm.
“I, once again rude lady, did NOT have an abortion!!! ”
Abortion = termination of a pregnancy
Even a spontaneoud miscarriage is an “abortion”. Not sure why your panties are in a twist over it
Then again, I wasn’t the one who said you did in the first place. Funny you call me “rude”.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 31, 2012 @ 4:16 pm (Quote)
I find your condescending attitude to be ridiculous. I was low risk at that time and I know about my own health! Your comment should be posted on My OB said WHAT?! because you automatically assumed that I didn’t know about my own body (symptoms, risk factors, medical history, and family history).
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Toni Reply:
February 2nd, 2012 at 10:44 am (Quote)
“I was low risk at that time and I know about my own health!”
That’s nice. I only suggested that maybe you had risk factors you weren’t aware of. There are MANY risk factors for ectopic pregnancy, many of which aren’t entirely apparent. If you want to submit my questioning of your story to this site (cuz, the horrors! how DARE anyone question an anonymous person on the Internetz!!!????), be my guest. And good luck with that
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Jennifer had this to say,
Jan 31, 2012 @ 4:37 pm (Quote)
I have to also mention how ridiculous it is that you think I don’t know the treatment options for an ectopic pregnancy. If you had read all of my comments, you would see that I mentioned ultrasound-guided injection procedure (where methotrexate or potassium chloride is administered into the fallopian tube through needle) or various levels of surgery (from laproscopic cutting into fallopian tube or removal of fallopian tube to emergency operation where sometimes ovary and even full hysterectomy is performed depending on the extent of internal bleeding if rupture has occurred).
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Toni Reply:
February 2nd, 2012 at 10:56 am (Quote)
When did I ever say that you didn’t know the treatment options? What you don’t seem to know is that typically there is ample time to do tests and determine the best course of treatment. Yes, ectopic pregnancy can become a life threatening emergency but there is usually time to act calmly before it is as emergent as you make it out to be.
I notice that in all of your tirades you have yet to address the real issue here: do you really think women should be forced to opt out of early transvaginal u/s? Why can’t people who want them opt in and everyone else can just wait until there is an actual need (if one ever arises)? Why should it be different from elective induction, where, yes, you can request it, but you certainly don’t find yourself in a situation where elective induction is *standard* and women without medical indication (if they had medical indictation it wouldn’t be “elective” anymore) need to “opt out”, thereby risking being labeled “noncompliant” at the very first freaking prenatal visit? You said all women should have this done. Are you rescinding that? Maybe coming to the more appropriate conclusion (that would be shared by the ACOG, for that matter), that transvag u/s should only be used when indicated, and that in the absense of conditions that would make earlier u/s warranted, the optimal time for u/s is between 18 and 20 weeks? Maybe?
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Jennifer had this to say,
Feb 5, 2012 @ 3:43 am (Quote)
Absolutely ridiculous that you want to spend your time telling a woman who lost a child (through *NO* fault of her own, nor *ANY* risk factor) in order to save her own life and more importantly the life of her healthy baby that she had an abortion. I would give just about anything to have my daughter’s twin with us, but that was *NEVER* an option for us.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Feb 5, 2012 @ 4:03 am (Quote)
I am so baffled that there are women who would wait 8-10 weeks to see a doctor. If your OBGYN won’t see you, you can see your family doctor or go to a walk-in. For me personally, even before having a high-risk pregnancy, immediate prenatal care makes sense. The point is that you accused me of using fertility drugs or having some other risk factors. Actually, my OB, his team, and I examined all possible reasons for this ectopic pregnancy and came up with none. The fact that heterotopic pregnancies are rare is not the issue here when talking about why early obstetric ultrasounds are important, the frequency of all complications (including but not limited to ectopics) is. I *NEVER* said that doctors don’t ignore or trivialize vaginal bleeding during pregnancy, I was talking about known ectopic pregnancies. I certainly think that any woman experiencing bleeding during pregnancy should know the risks of getting and not getting a transvaginal ultrasound (the risk of not being that the bleeding can be a sign of very serious and life-threatening complications). I personally think that all women should be offered a transvaginal ultrasound (which goes in line with every one of my comments, since saying a woman should get one is not “forcing” as you put it since we all have the right to opt out of tests). This comes from my experience, which is that a transvaginal ultrasound likely saved my daughter’s life, mine, and my future fertility. The “optimal” time for a first ultrasound for me definitely wasn’t 18-20 weeks, and this is the case for a lot of women too. The fact is, even looking at symptoms, risk factors, medical history, and family history, women just can’t know if an early obstetric ultrasound is going to be “unneeded” or if it is going to save their lives. At the very least, women should be aware that transvaginal ultrasounds serve a very important purpose and could be vital to them if known or unknown complications arise.
[Reply]
SculptorAlison Reply:
February 8th, 2012 at 5:41 pm (Quote)
Women don’t seek immediate medical care because being pregnant isn’t an illness. If that’s what makes you feel comfortable, that’s fine, but there’s not much that can be done that early except a dating ultrasound (which many women have no real need of) and HCG levels which may indicate if extra progesterone is needed (which most OBs won’t bother with, sadly). It’s not strange that a lot of us don’t feel the need to go rushing to the doctor as soon as that BFP shows up. With my last pregnancy I don’t think I was seen until 14 weeks, if I remember correctly.
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SculptorAlison Reply:
February 8th, 2012 at 5:44 pm (Quote)
Basically, what I’m getting at is that there is no need to go in that early unless you have an actual need to do so. I’m really glad that your early appointment was beneficial to you but you aren’t the norm in this situation. This is an instance of using your intuition to figure out what’s best for you and for your individual pregnancy.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Feb 8, 2012 @ 8:25 pm (Quote)
I never said that pregnancy was an illness. However, pregnancy involves not just your (mothers’) health, but the health of your child(ren). Prenatal care with an OB or midwife is not unlike well baby visits with the pediatrician or family doctor. Go to seek prenatal care as soon as you know you’re pregnant and continue on a schedule. Go to well baby visits starting from birth and continuing on at regular intervals. Both involve monitoring the progress of a seemingly healthy individual. This way progress can be documented and the detection of issues should they arise can be made sooner. I think it’s silly to assume you are the norm and not consider the possibility that your not.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Feb 8, 2012 @ 8:36 pm (Quote)
I never said pregnancy is an illness. Pregnancy involves not just your (mother’s) health, but the health of your child(ren). Going to an OB or midwife for prenatal care while pregnant is very similar to going to a pediatrician or family doctor for well baby visits after birth. Both involve monitoring the progress of seemingly health individuals. This way if issues arise they can be detected earlier and the progress can be well-documented. I think it’s silly to assume you are the norm instead of considering the possibility that you may not be.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Feb 8, 2012 @ 8:51 pm (Quote)
I never said pregnancy was an illness. Pregnancy is not just about your (the mother’s) health, it is about your child(ren)’s health too. Seeking prenatal care for your child from an OB or midwife from the time you know you are pregnant is not unlike going to well baby visits with a pediatrician or family doctor from birth onwards. Both involve monitoring and treating a seemingly healthy individual. That way health can be well-documented and complications can be detected earlier should they arise. I think it’s silly to assume you are the norm when there is a very real possibility you may not be.
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Alice Reply:
February 8th, 2012 at 11:48 pm (Quote)
I contacted care providers for prenatal care as soon as I found out I was pregnant at 4 weeks. They wouldn’t see me until I was 8 weeks and they didn’t do a whole lot that appointment anyway except take some blood work and try to get the heart beat.
You’re being incredibly condescending and don’t seem to actually be listening to anything anyone is telling you. Stop insisting on being angry and indignant and try actually listening to what the other commenters are saying.
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Jane Reply:
February 9th, 2012 at 3:59 am (Quote)
I know dozens of moms who’ve gotten pregnant and been told they cannot come into the office until 8 to 12 weeks. The only time I ever got in before 8 weeks was the pregnancy after I had a full-term loss, and even at that, they just wanted to see me. They didn’t do anything, didn’t test anything, etc. Just wanted to assess my emotional condition.
[Reply]
Details Reply:
February 9th, 2012 at 5:03 am (Quote)
Jennifer, you are paranoid. This terrible horrible thing happened to you. Nobody was ever able to tell you why. So you act like it is out there stalking you. Calm down. Reassure yourself the the Lord above sent you to that particular doctor on that particular day because He wanted the outcome that you got rather than a much worse outcome if normal procedures had been followed. Don’t blame the normal procedures. Thank the Lord. Medical decisions should not be based on fear of the worst possible out come. Normal is to figure out you are pregnant at what the fools call 4-5 weeks even though it is only 2-3 after conception. Normal is to ask for referals and call a doctor to get an appointment in maybe 3 weeks. Normal is to have your blood drawn, take your weight and blood pressure and get a prescription for prenatal vitamins and go home. That is normal. That probably would have resulted in you lossing both your twins and your falopia tube, but that is normal. You don’t like it, get down on your knees and thank the Lord that you got something different when you needed it. You are paranoid. You will carry that emotional baggage with you for the rest of your life. That doesn’t mean we all have to carry it with you.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Feb 9, 2012 @ 7:22 am (Quote)
Jade: Please share why well baby visits are deceptive, humiliating, consdecending, and biased. How concerning is it that you don’t seek proper medical care for your child(ren)? If you find them to be all of those negative things, maybe you should find another pediatrician! Yes, there are certain things that are said by a doctor that are negative, but that’s an individual doctor and not the entire profession. Yes, (depending on what country you live in and doctor you see) the growth chart is biased towards formula-fed babies but if you have the right doctor he/she will know your situation and not stress you out about weight. (I use this as an example). I have listened to what people have said, I don’t think very many people have listened to what *I* am saying. Choose what you wish, but know that transvaginal ultrasounds are important and save the lives of seemingly healthy women. Sure, choose not to seek prenatal care that’s your choice, but know your decision could result in you losing your life, the life of your child, and/or your future fertility. (And yes, there is one point I’m defensive on: I am defensive when someone calls my loss of a child an abortion when it is not. I have stated why it’s not and how much I wanted my baby, so I don’t think I need to reiterate again.)
[Reply]
Details Reply:
February 9th, 2012 at 7:47 am (Quote)
Getting in your car and going to the doctor appointment can also cause you to lose your life, but people do it every day. Life doesn’t come with any guarentees except that at some point you are going to die. Inducing can cause you to die, but people do it everyday. Your way of thinking is the reason that ob’s scheduled c-section for 38 & 39 weeks rather than 40. If a little bit of prevention is a good thing then a lot of prevention must be wonderful. and yet the result is the the March of Dimes has had to tell the doctors to knock if off because too many babies are premature. To much of a good thing is still too much. Everything has side effects! It is a matter of assessing the individual rather than one-size-fits all.
[Reply]
Jade Reply:
February 9th, 2012 at 1:51 pm (Quote)
For a start, well baby visits are not done by a paediatrician in Australia (Most people here would naver never ever seen a paediatrician in their entire lives, just like most of us will never see a gynaecologist and a large number will never see an OB)they are usually done by a maternal child health nurse. I know very few people who have continued to see a MCHN beyond the first few visits. I find them to be horrible becuase I have been criticised because my baby wasn’t gaining enough, was gaining too much, was eating food, was breastfed, was formula feed, I was working…the list goes on and they were not all the same person. We choose to go to the GP instead. I find it insulting that you assume that because I don’t follow the standard method for checking on my children’s wellbeing you assume that I don’t seek proper healthcare for them. They are healthy children who ahve no issues, who rarely need to go to a doctor and I treat them as such. They get a general check over when they go to the GP for vaccinations.
Just because I don’t like to repeat horrible expereinces of taking my kids to see a MCHN does not mean I don’t seek prenatal care. Throughout my 2 full term pregnancies I have been cared for by an OB briefly (I had gallstones, my gall bladder was taken out at 22 weeks) and a GP and a midwife forthe rest of that pregnancy and all of the next one (so I had prenatal care from 4 and 5 weeks until 37+5 and 43+5 respectively)
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Jennifer had this to say,
Feb 9, 2012 @ 7:46 am (Quote)
Details: The Lord didn’t save my life. I like the idea of God, but I’m not sold on him. My OB, his team, and a hospital’s team of doctors saved my life, my daughter’s, and my fertility. I shared my story to let women know it (any complication) *CAN* happen to you, not that it will. This is not being paranoid or carrying emotional baggage, this is being realistic. Yes, the norm is to have a “perfect” pregnancy without issue, but that is not a large number of women’s (not the majority, but a considerable amount) experience.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Feb 9, 2012 @ 5:21 pm (Quote)
Well there are huge differences between Australia and where I come from. In my country, the majority of children see a pediatrician and some choose to see a family doctor or general practitioner. Nurses do NOT do them, although nurses are responsible for vaccinations should parents opt to have them. I’m sorry that your Australian system is flawed that way. We have a wonderful, respectful, helpful, trustworthy pediatrician for our *very* healthy daughter. I don’t take everything any doctor says as “fact” without doing my own research and where appropriate seeking a second opinion. Also, a majority of women see an OBGYN here.
[Reply]
Jade Reply:
February 9th, 2012 at 7:18 pm (Quote)
I don’t think our system is flawed at all, I think that our system works exceptionally well, I just elect to not use the MCHN in favour of the GP (a nurse/Dr or paed could do any of the checks but most people will use the nurse or GP). And likewise either a nurse or Gp or Paeditrician could do vaccinations. Normal children have no need to see a specialist just like normal healthy women have no need to see a specialist ob/gyn. I honestly don’t understand why a healthy person would need to see a specialist, apart from anything it is a waste of the specialists time, they could be treating people who genuinely need specialist advice and treatment.
I have a wonderful, respectful, helpful, trustworthy GP for our very healthy children, one who has treated me since I was born and will continue to see me throughout my life, and has treated my children since they were born. I do take what *my* doctor says as fact because 27 years worth of experience tells me that she is being truthful and not using scare tactics, I always research things but always end up at the same conclusion as my GP and always end up with precisely the same treatment as my GP. If I go to a different Dr for any reason then I am much more wary.
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Jennifer had this to say,
Feb 9, 2012 @ 7:44 pm (Quote)
You said that you don’t like well baby visits because you find the ones with the standard MCHN to be condescending and biased and a host of other negative things. Clearly, you don’t like your own country’s system. I see every point to see a pediatrician for a child and an OBGYN for gynecology, pregnancy, and birth because those people are specially trained to deal with those issues. There are plenty available, like I said the majority opt to see them, and it is not a “waste of their time” to care for people. Plus, if complications arise, the best professional is already there to treat you.
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No need to be crude. I sincerely doubt her husband had an 18 inch penis. I’ve had two vaginal ultrasounds. They were within a day if each other. One was performed by a caring naturopathic doctor and was not uncomfortable. The second was done the next day when I was hemorrhaging by an er resident. Still have nightmares about it.
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