Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Jan
17
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“….Are You Going To Want To Try and Have Your Baby?
“So, would you like to schedule a cesarean section or are you going to want to try and *HAVE* your baby?” – OB at first prenatal.
There are 62 comments to this post.
Judging by the astrisks, I get the feeling the OB was looking down on women that have a vaginal delivery. Which is uncalled for. But I’ve noticed that many women on this site are over sensitive about tiny little details. The OB was simply asking a question, and while I feel that there is no room for judgement on the OB’s part, from the sounds of things he/she was stating options. Some women choose to have a C-section, and that is their choice. As a birthing community we should respect that too. Either way, a C-section or vaginal delivery the baby is being ‘had’.
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Kylie Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 10:06 am (Quote)
That is certainly my objection. Moms “have” their babies no matter how they come out.
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Maddy Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 11:26 am (Quote)
Over sensitive? The way I see it, it’s the doctors who aren’t being sensitive enough. It’s in the job description that they frequently be dealing with people. Not just any people, though. Women. Pregnant women. And if they can’t muster up a little sensitivity and respect, they should be doing something else.
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jaed Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 2:09 pm (Quote)
Is there any reason for the OB to “simply ask this question” at the first prenatal appointment, months before the birth? Other than to begin grooming the mother for an unneeded surgery?
It would be a different story if the mother herself brought it up, even so early. Or if there were medical indications for caesarean that were known at this stage. But I get the distinct impression that neither of these is the case.
When an OB tries pressure tactics to push a mother into the OR, that has nothing to do with respecting her own choices.
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Mama Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 6:49 pm (Quote)
Given that I don’t know every detail about this appointment (and honestly don’t care to – some things should be private unless poster wants to relinquish) the point of if the OB was pressuring or not is in a sense moot.
I do think that there should be competance on the OB’s part, but if they were just going through options I see no reason to make a big deal of it. Some women know what they want before they get pregnant. And that is ok too.
And as I stated before, judgement is uncalled for, and I agree with you that pressure is also. But it isn’t the OB’s job to cottle every patient.
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Details Reply:
January 18th, 2012 at 6:26 am (Quote)
What we do know about this appointment is that the mother who submitted it found it to be a crazy thing to say. 90% of the time that translates to annoying and rude. Other times it is just shocking or even funny (pop goes the weasle) Clearly this idiot was NOT just going through options. If he was just going through options the mother wouldn’t have submitted it!
The other part about this site that you don’t get is that this type of stuff happens over and over again in OB offices throughout the states and the world. We have a c-section rate over 30%. The fact that on most posts 3 or more mothers chime in with somebody said that to me too is an indication that we have a problem. We need to make a big deal of it! Otherwise it is not going to stop. Too darn many of us walked into our first birth expecting to be treat with respect and guided by evidence based medicine only to be pitted to distressed and blindsided by a system that is broken. If your reason for visiting is to tell us to not take it personally and just be glad that our babies are alive and well, then hit the road. You’ve come to the wrong place and are part of the problem.
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Jewels Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 8:22 pm (Quote)
“Either way, a C-section or vaginal delivery the baby is being ‘had’.”
Not according to this doctor, apparently!
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Aron Reply:
January 18th, 2012 at 6:37 am (Quote)
The problem is the doctor is up-selling. Even ACOG agrees that women have the right to ASK for unneeded surgical births, but doctors don’t need to promote them unasked. Surgery significantly increases the risks to mother, infant and future children. If the woman insists on it regardless of actual need, that is her choice to make (and to be respected), but never the doctor’s to offer without actual medical cause. Frankly, if there WERE medical cause warranting planning a surgical birth, it’s more likely the doctor would be saying “because of the risk of A, B, and C related to X condition you are experiencing, I’m going to recommend that we consider a surgical birth right from the start.”
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Had a similar comment at a prenatal. Now, realize I was high risk due to a heart problem though the cardiologist was fine with me having a vaginal deliver, but the OB I saw at one visit was “How are you going to have the baby” and was pleasantly surprised when I looked at him like he was an idiot and said in my best “when a mommy and a daddy love each other very much” voice “well, I thought one day, I start having contractions. Then I’d wait until they get somewhat close together, and come to the hospital” (I was advised that “close together” should be further apart for me than most moms since DS was precipitous)
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road2vba2c had this to say,
Jan 17, 2012 @ 9:36 am (Quote)
Forget the condescending tone. Forget the assumption that she can’t deliver (“try”). Forget the assumption that it’s either go all natural or get cut. Who *really* wants to plan something like that 8 months out? A million things can happen (illness, death in the family, job move, etc.) to keep it from happening…
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Heidi had this to say,
Jan 17, 2012 @ 9:43 am (Quote)
Mama, I can tolerate and accept a woman’s decision to have an elective C-section with no medical indications, but I don’t know that I can actually respect it. It’s a decision that puts her baby at greater risk, and one which normalizes surgical delivery. (The more births via C-section, the less they are seen as a big deal. Therefore a mom who had an unnecesarean will be less likely to receive a sympathetic ear from society at large. After all, other women and their doctors agreed that it was reasonable to have the same thing done for no reason at all! So why would a woman feel mad that she had one if it was deemed necessary by her doctor?)
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Michelle Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 10:11 am (Quote)
When I hear about women who choose to have a medically unnecessary c-section (that is, if they *know* it’s not necessary), I think of a woman I once spoke to who was angry because no doctor would perform an elective hysterectomy on her. She did not have *any* medical problems related to her uterus — she wanted a completely unnecessary hysterectomy as a form of birth control.
To be blunt, choosing to have major surgery that you don’t need is irrational. I just can’t respect it. And it really disgusts me that there is a push to normalize unnecessary major surgery by propagandizing it as safe and convenient. I find it almost as disgusting as when doctors flat out lie and trick women into thinking the surgery is necessary when it isn’t.
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Darsy Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 11:49 am (Quote)
To be honest, doctors are pretty terrible to women under 35 who don’t want kids, so I don’t blame your friend for being upset. I don’t know that I’d call it a completely unnecessary surgery (though iirc, hysterectomies can cause other health issues) surgery if she knows she doesn’t ever want kids. Often the way women are treated when they want to be sterilized is so paternalistic and terrible that they become even more adamant (and I don’t blame them, it’s really terrible to be treated like a child who doesn’t know what’s best for yourself just for not wanting to be a parent).
I am kind of side-eyeing the idea that your friend is irrational for wanting surgery for birth control. Does she have issues with hormonal birth control? If she doesn’t want children and doesn’t have any now, most doctors won’t let her get an IUD, and the implant can have some nasty physiological and psychological side-effects. Honestly, if a woman knows she doesn’t want children, and isn’t willing to risk the failure rate of a tubal ligation, I wouldn’t call a hysterectomy an ‘irrational’ thing to want 
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Details Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 1:28 pm (Quote)
I don’t recall the failure rate of a tubal being all that friken high.
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Darsy Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 6:19 pm (Quote)
It turns out I was remembering the % chance of an ectopic pregnancy post-ligation as the failure rate, so you’re right.
Still, I think judging another woman because she wants to be sterilized via a surgery (since a tubal is also surgery, yeah?) is pretty gross, and I’ll stand up for someone’s right not to have children as much as I’ll stand up for their rights TO have children.
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Details Reply:
January 18th, 2012 at 6:12 am (Quote)
You know sometimes it just comes down to communitcations. If this person just said i want to be sterized, but I have a huge fear of ectopic pregnancy so I would rather just go for a hystercotmy (a situation btw that you made up and may have no bearing on Michelle’s friend) then somebody would have at least sat down with her and explained the pros and cons and helped her deterimine if her fear was rational or irrational. But the concept that any doctor would just say okay the customer knows best and do the hysterectomy without some discussion is disgusting. You are clearly thinking hysterectomy = tubal and that just isn’t true. There are many more risks to a hysterectomy. In your hurry to never judge anybody about anything you have put your brain on hold.
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Darsy Reply:
January 18th, 2012 at 6:21 am (Quote)
Your attitude is confusing. I made nothing up–I have at least two friends who have struggled to be taken seriously by doctors simply because they’re female and wish to be sterilized. One was told to wait till she was 35 (told this at 25), another was lucky enough in her search to find a doctor last year after looking for four years (she’s 27). I don’t know where ‘this person’ you’re talking about came from, but saying that *I* made something up about Michelle’s friend while also making up a conversation she ‘should’ have had to be taken seriously is kind of hypocritical.
I’m not trying to be combative. I’m trying to say that there are many reasons that someone might wish to have a hysterectomy, and I suggested some possible reasons. I never said ‘the doctor would just say the customer knows best and do the hysterectomy without some discussion.’ We speak all the time on this site about the difference between communicating effectively as a healthcare professional and belittling women, do we not?
For the record I am not ‘clearly’ thinking that those two procedures are the same! I know that they are not–again, I was simply saying that not only is it very difficult for women under a certain age without children to be permanently sterilized, but that judging someone for wishing such a thing is distasteful to me. I don’t see how this is ‘putting my brain on hold,’ but then again, I’m a pregnant mama speaking up for childfree friends, so undoubtedly at least some people will think I’m somehow being a hypocrite just for that.
In conclusion, I’m sorry for the long comment, but I couldn’t just sit by and have someone make up things about what I’m thinking and accuse me of things that aren’t true. I guess next time I shouldn’t admit I mixed up statistics, because it seems to have made you think everything that I write is utter crap.
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Details Reply:
January 18th, 2012 at 6:54 am (Quote)
Michelle’s point was “To be blunt, choosing to have major surgery that you don’t need is irrational. I just can’t respect it.” I agree, choosing to have a hysterectomey when what you really need is a tubal is irrational. Choosing to have a c-section for a first baby 8 month in advance is irrational. That is my point. Stop trying to justify it by relating it to somebody who “only wanted to be sterlized.” That is a huge leap you just made. This post is not about sterilization. This post is about an OB who put his/her foot in his/her mouth about a c-section. You apparently agree that doctors are sometimes paternalistic. However, we disagree about “respecting” all women’s decisions no matter how “irrational.” I’m pointing out that irrational is irration no matter if it is the doctor or the woman.
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Mama Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 6:58 pm (Quote)
Regardless of what your personal beliefs are, you don’t know the exact circumstances of every birth, and there may be a relevant reason to the mother’s choice to have a C-section, while not medical. It is NOT up to you to decide. It really doesn’t matter if you can respect it or not, given that it isn’t your decision in the end.
For example, I was unable to breast feed – I consulted two nurses, a lactation consultant and dietician and a latch could not be established. Pumping was not an option for us, so we switched to formula.
While I know that breastmilk is the best food I could have given my baby, it was not the best choice for our situation. And its not up to anyone but myself to make that choice. I honestly don’t care if anyone repects me more or less for my choice, because its completely irrelevant to me.
As with birth, if a mother chooses a C-section for herself its up to her, and her right to do so. There are pros and cons to both a vaginal delivery and a C-section. – I’m just advocating for a womans right to choose how she wants to birth.
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Details Reply:
January 18th, 2012 at 7:02 am (Quote)
This doctor wasn’t advocating for a womans right to choose how she wants to birth. This doctor was dumping attitude, and lots of it. But you called that a little detail that we should overlook! Well the Devil is in the Details Darling. Pay attention!
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amanda Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 11:23 am (Quote)
i think that it would do the entire birthing community good if we could ALL try and respect ANY decisions a mother makes for her family, without judgement. until you know the reasons, it may be hard to understand. many choices increase risks when delivering – do you not respect any of those choices (hospital births tend to have a higher rate of infection and secondary complications, do you only respect home births?).
some women choose c-section because of a history of sexual abuse and trauma, previous birth trauma, or location. in the northern part of my province, there are no midwives and few communities with hospitals – many women fly to a hospital several hours away to give birth. a mother with other young children at home may wish to plan a section simply for the issues around child care for her older children.
i chose an elective section for my 3rd birth. my second birth was highly complicated and required me being in a hospital 3 hours from home for many weeks prior to the birth. when labour began, i needed a section immediately. even being in a hospital with 24 hour obs/anesethesiology/level 3 nicu, it didn’t come in time and my baby died.
when i went to have number three, i chose a section 10 days before my due date at the smaller hospital an hour from home. i could have gone into labour on my own, driven an hour in, and hoped that if i needed a section the team could assemble quickly enough for me. there was no medical indications that the same thing would happen. but for my own peace of mind, i chose an elective section. i’m sick of hearing from people about how much more at risk i put myself and my baby. unless you have been exactly where i was, it doesn’t matter.
nothing bothers me more than judegement about choices around birth. if i were to have a breast enlargement or an abortion, that’s fine, its my body. but the second a woman enters motherhood, everyone gets to have an opinion on how they birth and feed their child with that same body.
until women start supporting each other regardless of choice, no one is going to get ahead in this situation.
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abba12 Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 2:21 pm (Quote)
Yes, this!! I didn’t have a section, but I also didn’t follow the ‘perfect natural birth’ plan and I’m so sick of being judged and looked down upon because I chose some things that the ‘natural birthing community’ is against.
It’s hard enough having every doctor and every ‘normal’ parent tell you you’re wrong, but when you also have most of the ‘natural living’ parents telling you that you’re wrong too, it makes it so much harder.
Sometimes I think of just doing it all, the epi, the induction, everything, because it would be so much easier than doing it naturally without any support because I’m not doing it naturally ‘enough’.
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Sodapop Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 2:47 pm (Quote)
Thank you for posting this. <3
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Sodapop Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 2:49 pm (Quote)
which actually reminds me of this article I read the other day. “attachment parenting dropout” http://www.salon.com/2012/01/16/attachment_parenting_dropout/
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Details Reply:
January 18th, 2012 at 7:12 am (Quote)
I’m so sorry you lost your second baby. You have absolutely nothing to explain to anyone. A Panda that feels threatened (not in a safe place, being stared at by the zoo vet) will suffer a dysfunctional labor that kills the cub. That is a medical reality. Birth is not just a mechanical thing. If the mother isn’t respected and safe, things go wrong. Of course you choose a c-section. You had every right. Again, I am terribly sorry for the loss of your second baby and the abuse you apparently have been subjected to related to the birth of your 3rd.
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My objection to this is that if you have to have a c-section why does that mean you didn’t *have* your baby? I know some women feel that way-that they didn’t give birth if they had a cesarean-and maybe it is doctors like this that make c-sections feel just so awful and like a failure on the mother’s part.
I had a c-section and trust me I *had* a baby. She’s here right now pushing a chair around my kitchen. Thanks!
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Rebecca Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 9:52 am (Quote)
Careful. THe next step after pushing the chair around is using it to climb up on the counters. Guess how I know
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Jennifer Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 10:24 am (Quote)
Oh no! So far she is not a climber-except the stairs-but I will have to watch out. LOL!
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Rebecca Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 10:27 am (Quote)
Yeah, started out with me getting on DH for leaving stemware (that 2yo DD brought me) then I caught her pulling stuff out of the top cabinets.
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Krista Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 10:35 am (Quote)
You’re lucky. Mine started with a knife. A knife, mind you, that before that day was a safe distance away from my son.
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Darsy Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 11:51 am (Quote)
My husband always loves to say ‘babies LOVE knives!’ Our problem isn’t that our daughter can use a chair to reach the counters, it’s that she’s tall enough to reach them without help! 36 inches tall (3 feet) at her 2nd birthday, and already well on her way to 38 inches now that she’s halfway to three!
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Rebecca Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 12:44 pm (Quote)
We had knives too, but that was when we discovered she could reach the drawers, no climbing required.
I’ve really wanted to publish a status somewhere that laments the death of “up” to put things in safely.
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first time mommy Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 12:44 pm (Quote)
ROFL! Knives have a been a big joke with my parents! It started with my dad holding DS when he was about 2-3 months, DS saw shiny knife sticking in the main dish at dinner in the middle of table and reaching for it – not that he could’ve grabbed it though was very out of reach. So now it’s been a big joke 
DS cries and my dad goes “Oh, give him a knife! that’s what he really wants!”
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Laura Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 1:05 pm (Quote)
I was very lucky, and not lucky. Mine started with the cinnamon.
No injuries. Slight risk of same (he almost got it in his eyes before I got to him), but not major.
But oh man, the cleanup. He’d dumped half a large thing of cinnamon alllll over the kitchen and himself. I’m glad he was so excited to shake it out that he didn’t carry it around and dump it somewhere carpeted, though.
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Jade Reply:
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:04 am (Quote)
Mine started with a knife too…. he used a 12 pack of toilet paper to get onto the chair, to get onto the bench to reach the knife block… he then carried the knife all of the way back down, proceeded to the fridge, took the childlock off the fridge, removed the packet of cheese, used the knife to open the cheese, sliced his finger, needed microsurgery on his finger. This all happened while I went to the toilet and my husband put the rubbish into the bin
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Lizzie K Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 10:59 am (Quote)
How in the world did you figure that one out? lol My two-year old sees me climbing on chairs to reach things in the cabinet since I’m short and the cabinets are high, so he started pushing a chair over to the counter and using it to climb up and steal stuff off the counter. I have to be especially watchful when I bake cookies.
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Rachel T Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 10:30 am (Quote)
Cesarean birth is definitely still having a baby. I think the objection (when we get the pink link) will be to the tone and the language. A more appropriate question would have been “When you are ready, I would like to discuss your birth preferences.”
The implication of the statement is that any attempt at vaginal delivery will fail and the Cesarean will happen anyway so why even try.
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Sheva Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 10:43 am (Quote)
That was my first reaction, too. No matter how a baby is born, it is ‘had’ by its mom. No need to devalue either method, doc. But there are so many innuendo in this comment, it’s impossible to be sure what the doc meant until we see the pink link.
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Toshia had this to say,
Jan 17, 2012 @ 10:48 am (Quote)
I think the disturbing thing here is the assumption that a cesarean is equal to a vaginal birth with no risk factors present to necessitate a cesarean.
If a woman wants an elective cesarean she is willingly putting her baby at greater risk and any future children she might have not to mention all of the risks she takes on for herself.
Furthermore it is not the insurance companies responsibility to pay more than they would for a vaginal birth if a woman chooses an elective cesarean.
Sometimes cesareans are necesary and yes they save lives but not 33% of the births in the US. That is too high. That number makes the risk outweigh the benefit.
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Julie had this to say,
Jan 17, 2012 @ 11:09 am (Quote)
Funny, I read that opposite of all of you. I see it as the doc looking down on c-section moms as not *having* their babies (for lack of trying, is the implication I find). Not cool either way.
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Rebecca Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 1:32 pm (Quote)
Then why ask the question? No other doctor would say “Do you want this surgery” without medical indications. Could you imagine going in for an annual physical and being offered an appendectomy? Or bypass surgery?
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abba12 Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 2:27 pm (Quote)
Well no, doctors need to give options and be impartial. He made his opinion clear, but you would get angry if a formula supporting doctor never gave breastfeeding as an option. In this day and age he needs to give all the options, some mums will choose a c-section and that’s their choice.
It was my first impression too, but I thought I must have misread it after everyone elses comments, glad someone else thought the same thing!
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jaed Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 2:48 pm (Quote)
I don’t see that as the same thing at all. Breastfeeding is the norm. Formula should be discussed and offered if there’s some problem that makes breastfeeding difficult (and/or if the mother asks about it, for whatever reasons she may have).
I wouldn’t be angry at all if a doctor never mentioned formula, if the mother doesn’t ask and there’s no medical reason to suggest it. Same with birth – if the mother asks about the possibility of caesarean or if there’s a medical indication, by all means discuss it. But suggesting it as if they are equal options, one from column A, one from column B… no. It’s major surgery and has some serious implications. It shouldn’t be framed as though it’s merely choosing the salad instead of the soup with dinner.
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I had a longer post and I don’t know where it went, but I find the distrubing thing the combo of want and try. As if being allowed to labor for 2 or 3 hours and then bullied into a c-section would be a good thing.
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Details Reply:
January 18th, 2012 at 6:01 am (Quote)
I assumed this woman had a previous c-section. If this is a first time mom or a mother with only previous vaginal deliveries this doctor shouldn’t even be asking this question. Clearly there is bias in his thinking. It just might be that he is looking down on all women: the crunchy natural & VBAC mamas and the whiny too posh to push whimps. Maybe he is burned out and misses the days when women walked into their first appointment and only wanted to know their due dates.
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At the FIRST visit???
Counting our chickens are we doc? You probably haven’t even been able to “accurately” determine when she is “due” yet!!!
If I had scheduled a section based on the date they gave me at MY first visit, he would have been born SIX WEEKS early!!!
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Then why ask the question? No other doctor would say “Do you want this surgery” without medical indications. Could you imagine going in for an annual physical and being offered an appendectomy? Or bypass surgery?
Doctors treat us that way all the time. A GP at the small local hospital once screamed at my mother for not removing her gall bladder (before said hospital was capable of laproscopy) and accused her of driving the hospital out of business b/c she wanted a second opinion. A few diet modifications and she was fine.
This doctor’s comment appears to be railroading the OP into a choice that may not be indicated. If the OP chose surgery based on this comment (women do it every day!) I may not respect that choice, but I certainly can’t fault her for it. We are conditioned to accept doctor’s advice and the whole system seems geared toward preventing informed choice.
Have you read http://drimportant.blogspot.com/ this week? he writes about a meeting where doctors discussed a complication resulting from one doc’s use of their shiny new robot toy to perform a hysterectomy, and they conclude the complication was acceptable. Unfortunately, there was no diagnosis indicating a hysterectomy and no record of other options being offered. Wonder if that woman knows now that her surgery was unnecessary and whether she agrees that her complication is no biggie?
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Add Your Comment.
I know! How unreasonable that women should desire to avoid major abdominal surgery! *eyeroll*
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Trisha Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 9:27 am Trisha(Quote)
I REALLY love that you comment on almost all of these posts. I look for your comments! Just thought I’d be a stalker and let you know. I’m always like, “YEAH! What Jane said! Rrrr!”
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Amy Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 10:59 am Amy(Quote)
yeah! what Trisha said! lol
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Jewels Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 8:13 pm Jewels(Quote)
Same here!
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