Jan 6

“You Should Really See The Male OBs To Establish A Relationship…”

“You should really see the male OBs to establish a relationship, in case you need to see them later.” – OB staff after the mother expressed concern about a male provider because of a sexual abuse history.

60 people dislike these words.

There are 36 comments to this post.

Jade S. had this to say, Jan 6, 2012 @ 7:01 pm (Quote)

For the love of Gd… ugh. Sorry OP. That’s not an easy thing to deal with & then having your needs/concerns dismissed is terrible. Huge hugs.

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Jennifer had this to say, Jan 6, 2012 @ 7:11 pm (Quote)

My heart goes out to anyone who has been a victim of sexual abuse, and this definitely could have been handled more tactfully. However, in many OB practices, including the one I use, all women are encouraged to meet with all the providers during a pregnancy, since the OB on call when you go into labor is the one who will attend the birth. If I was uncomfortable having a male OB, I would choose a practice with only female providers, or one that could guarantee that my primary doctor would be the one at the delivery.

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Kristy Reply:
January 6th, 2012 at 7:42 pm Kristy(Quote)

One more reason ‘all’ women should not be treated any *one* way by any doctor or group of doctors. *This* woman needed an exception to be made and a woman doctor needed to be willing to be ‘on call’ specifically for her.

My family practice doc went on vacation a couple weeks before I was due… but he was concerned about his ‘backup’ being respectful of my birth plan. He made a point of telling me to call *him* if I went into labor before he returned. I was glad I didn’t have to take him up on it… I didn’t want to cut into his time. But I think it speaks volumes that he was concerned about my needs to that degree.

Clearly this practice just cares about what we ‘always’ do for ‘all’ women.

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Rachel Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 7:52 am Rachel(Quote)

sadly even if you are at an all female practice you can still get a male OB I went with all women and then on the day they induced me (supposedly necessary… I know better now) someone else from their practice was giving birth too so I ended up with the random OB from the hospital… and the male medstudent who we can only assume had never seen a birth before (they did ask if it was ok to have the student there)

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Tee had this to say, Jan 6, 2012 @ 9:06 pm (Quote)

I struggle with this one. As someone that has been sexually assualted… by a GYN, no less… I can completely understand where the Mom is coming from. Part of me (the majority of me!) wants to say, “So does that mean that the female OB can’t handle any emergency that arises?!” But the other part of me understands where the staff is coming from. It might be easier if the Mom is familiar with everyone. The bottom line of it all, in my opinion, is that it is up to Mom and Mom alone as to if she takes that risk.

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C.Pratt Reply:
January 6th, 2012 at 11:12 pm C.Pratt(Quote)

I understand where the staff is coming from, and it’s a place that completely lacks customer service. If I were to say this to a provider it could mean “If a man aproaches me I very well may rip out my IV and hit him with the nearest thing that isn’t nailed down.” Conversely, if this were the providers reply I would take it as indirect communication for “Yeah, um, we can’t do anything for you.” Which in a circumstance where mom is lacking alternative options it could be outright terrifying.

OP, I’m sorry. I hope you recieved the care you needed.

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Michelle Potter Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 10:17 am Michelle Potter(Quote)

Exactly. This mom said, “I have a special need that I would like to address,” and her OB responded basically, “Too bad, so sad.”

Yes, it would be EASIER for the staff. I can even see it being SOP. If my OB suggested I meet with all of his partners, I wouldn’t flinch, because I have no special needs in that area. But when a woman reveals her vulnerability like that and is totally rebuffed, that’s just wrong.

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Jenny Islander Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 1:59 am Jenny Islander(Quote)

The staff is coming from complete inability to understand that asking someone with PTSD to voluntarily submit herself to a situation that triggers PTSD symptoms is a damnfool notion even when a helpless third party is not involved.

As C. Pratt pointed out, people in the grip of flashbacks may fight like tigers. Or they may become catatonic. They may not remember where or when they are or who you are. Not exactly conducive to a safe labor and birth.

Now, me, I would introduce myself to the male OBs in a public setting with an open door on my other side and explain that unless they really want to be treated like they are between me and the air I need to breathe, they had better arrange for a female substitute to be on call for a couple of weeks either side of my EDD. Because there is no snapping out of a PTSD flashback. There is no being nice for the nice doctor when the past eats the present.

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Tee Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 1:57 pm Tee(Quote)

Believe me, I’m well aware how impossible it is to stop a PTSD flashback. Raped by a doctor… I know. But the bottom line of it all is that I’m not going to rake every single doctor over the coals when I can see both sides of a situation. I don’t agree with this doctor’s office’s policy but I do understand it. And I thought I made that pretty clear, but I guess not.

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abba12 had this to say, Jan 6, 2012 @ 11:59 pm (Quote)

I’m sorry, I also had a history of abuse, including by a doctor, and requested no males in the delivery room. So I completely understand where you’re coming from.

But if one of the people on my midwife rotation was male (In Australia we mostly see midwives not OBs) I would have made one appointment with him, because sometimes things don’t go to plan and I’d rather know him than have him a stranger. I’d tell him my feelings and that I’d rather he not be present.

But the fact is, if he’s the one on call that day, I’m stuck with him for at least the half hour or more it takes for a female to travel in. I’d rather he know my issues when I’m not vulnerable, and I know him at least a little bit, for that time we’re stuck together.

And what if no one else was available, they rotate together for a reason, what if there’s two females and one male, and one female is on a short holiday out of state, and the other just finished an all nighter with another birthing mother? I got the midwife I did during my birth because of this exact circumstance. You can’t expect them to be on call constantly just for you, they have lives outside of their work and they rotate with each other for just that reason. Unfortunately in that case you have little choice except to hope one of the other rotations has a woman you’ve never met on call and you can swap.

Please understand I’m NOT saying you shouldn’t strive for female care, in my opinion men shouldn’t work in any of the childbirthing medical fields at all, but if you’re at a practice with both men and women, there is a chance you will be stuck with a man for at least a short period of time while a woman is found. If you are that adamant you cannot have a male, then you should seek out a female only practice or at least a female only rotation. It’s not fair to expect the female OBs to work double shifts for the two months you could deliver, which is what you’d be asking if they were constantly on call for you during his shifts as well as their own.

I appreciate that being asked to meet him might have been hard, but I guess I personally would prefer to meet him beforehand, than risk meeting him as I’m in labour and he wants to do a VE. Ask someone to attend with you if you don’t want to be alone with him, make it a special appointment that your partner or best friend attends or something. But if you’re that fresh off that you can’t even meet him, then it’s simply too dangerous for you to be treated in a mixed gender practice, for your sake you need/needed to transfer to a female only rotation or practice, because there’s too much risk of unforseen circumstances causing you to only have him available to you.

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litlwiz Reply:
January 8th, 2012 at 5:20 am litlwiz(Quote)

thank you for writing this… as a CNM I can tell you that many women who have suffered abuse need to have a plan in place for birth and to meet anyone who may be involved with their care FOR THEIR OWN PIECE OF MIND more than anything else. In reverse the providers that someone chooses should always discuss appropriate care for each individual client, not a blanket way to deal with anyone who walks through the door. Thank you thank you thank you for expressing this angle !!!!!

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Details had this to say, Jan 7, 2012 @ 5:42 am (Quote)

How about if mom “meets each OB” but keeps her pants on. And how about if the female OB(s) agree to come even if she/they are not “on call” at that time? Which of course means mom gets the female doctor’s personal cell phone number. It seems like a discussion along those lines should take place and if that isn’t acceptable and the patient can find another provider then she should find another provider. We have to work together. And don’t take crap from a nurse who isn’t authorized to do anything outside of normal. Talk to the doctor about it.

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Mama Wrench Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 6:00 am Mama Wrench(Quote)

That was what I was thinking, too. Yes, she should be able to request a female physician (most hospitals require that patients be able to choose a provider of the sex they prefer, and/or have a same-sex escort), but a simple consultation to make the male OBs aware of her history, preferences and philosophy wouldn’t be entirely out of the question, either.

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Kate, Ren's Mama had this to say, Jan 7, 2012 @ 7:36 am (Quote)

I wonder how this would have been handled if the mama had some other requirement. Would they tell a Spanish-speaking mom, “sorry, we cannot guarantee that we’ll have a Spanish translator on call; you’ll just have to learn English before your baby comes”? Would they tell a mom with mobility issues that she wasn’t guaranteed a wheelchair accessible room and that she’d just have to suck it up?

I honestly don’t know the answers to these questions. I guess my point is: is this hospital just so rigid as to not provide for individual needs across the board, or is this nurse *specifically* dismissing PTSD as a true condition which requires special consideration? Either way, it sucks…

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Mama Wrench Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 11:24 am Mama Wrench(Quote)

I was wondering the same thing. What if this was an Orthodox Jewish or Muslim woman who cannot physically interact with men except in life-threatening circumstances? A verbal consultation is one thing, a physical exam is another.

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E had this to say, Jan 7, 2012 @ 9:38 am (Quote)

This is mine. And a very long story. It was a joint CNM-OB practice with 4 female midwives, 2 male OB’s, and 1 female OB.

I came to my appointment that I knew was going to be the GBS test appointment and possibly a vaginal exam .. and the receptionist told me I would be seeing the male OB instead of the midwives. I asked if it was a mistake and to speak to one of the midwives first, maybe they’d adjust it so a midwife saw me instead.

I waited a long time in the waiting room and finally both a midwife and the receptionist called me in and I talked to them for a minute about my being uncomfortable and why that was in their charts and if they wanted me to meet an OB for this sort of appointment, couldn’t I just meet the female one? The midwife told me the line about needing to see everyone just incase, that a female nurse would be in with me.. She added that if I really felt uncomfortable to tell them to stop, then she escorted me into the room and handed me the sheet and suggested I get undressed cause the nurse would be in soon followed by the doctor.

I didn’t have enough time to get undressed and the nurse came in and introduced herself and sighed heavily and told me to get undressed. So, I figured, well, I am here and I was going to have this test and a female nurse will be here so, I guess. I waited for the nurse to leave, but she looked at me like “go on” and stood there turned around whilst I got undressed which is abnormal I thought, and I commented in a “well this is different” way.

Then, the OB came in and he introduced himself, and then asked if he could do the test, please slide down, and I said okay and he positioned me and went to work with the testers. I did feel very anxious, I reflexively jumped a bit but repositioned myself when he touched me with the testers, I was rather hot, and I was sweating quite a bit.. but that’s pretty much normal for me for an exam.

When that was over, I was so relieved that it had gone as well as it had for me.. and I started to sit up to talk about the vaginal exam before he did it, like I’d prefer if he talk to me like chitter chatter or about his kids, the weather, during, but then without any warning I felt his fingers and I said “what are you doing?” He said “I’m just doing an exam” and he slid me down.

I began to hyperventilate a bit, my eyes filled with tears, I began to sweat profusely, I turned deep red and felt very very hot, my ears started to buzz a little tiny bit, and I physically pulled away from him. I think I also said in what had to have been a very upset tone that I was uncomfortable. He did not say anything but just felt all around and as I slid up the table, his hands followed me.

I looked at the nurse and told her I never had seen a male before and would prefer this (the exam) to end.. just as I was about to cry the OB declared that it was over.

I felt many emotions, was still breathing very heavily, and, I choked out again that “I’ve never seen a male before” and then, the doctor looked at me for a second and then told both me and the nurse “Wow, I’ve not had a reaction like this from a woman since I was young, attractive man!”

I felt like he was saying I was acting so anxious because I was attracted to him or something, and I was aghast.. I think I gaped my mouth when he said that. My ears started to ring and heart started to pump so I could feel it in my head and hear it in my head as a whooshing with the ringing and I also pretty much stopped breathing for a bit. I am sure I changed colors. The nurse and he laughed, and then he said a couple things to me but I couldn’t hear him because I was so freaked out, and he put his hand on the doorknob and I don’t remember if I said bye or something but I am sure I just wanted them to leave and I think I waved as they left.

I don’t know how I got dressed and out to my car, but when I did get out there I know I sobbed for a good long while. When I got home I felt a bit ashamed at first, and I shook until I took a hot shower, and then I started to feel angry about what happened.

At my next appointment, which I was dreading, I anxiously told the midwife at the end of an appointment that by the way.. I would not see him again and did not want him to attend at my delivery at all even if he was the only provider they had around, they had to call someone else. And, when she asked why, I said that he didn’t have a sensitive enough bed-side manner for me. Then she did ask if I wanted to file a formal complaint, I thought about it, but I didn’t. I had the receptionist write down similar so it was sure to get in the chart. I was a nervous wreck talking to them about it and almost cried telling the receptionist.

Maybe I should’ve filed a formal complaint since he kept talking to me in the halls in what was an overly friendly way..

And, even though I had demanded not to, I actually did see him whilst I was in transition which I barely remember because I was quite ill, but I know he gave me a very painful exam and had his whole hand up my vagina for some reason..

And the next day post-partum the OB came into my hospital room and felt my breasts whilst I was asleep and when I woke up to this, he declared that “OHH you are not engorged, your milk is not in yet!”

I don’t know what was wrong with this person.

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Michelle Potter Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 10:25 am Michelle Potter(Quote)

Oh my God. I am so, so very sorry that this happened to you. I can’t even find words.

I have no experience with sexual abuse myself. But if a doctor had behaved that way to me, I definitely would have felt that he had seriously crossed a line. If I woke up to a doctor touching me ANYWHERE, especially my breasts, I would have felt completely violated.

I am so, so, so sorry you went through this.

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Mama Wrench Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 11:23 am Mama Wrench(Quote)

Wow.

First off, that’s battery and sexual assault, plain and simple — no matter whether you have a history of sexual abuse or not.

It may not be timely enough to take legal action but there’s no statute of limitations on formal complaints. He needs to be kept away from patients. Clearly he doesn’t understand professional boundaries.

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Jespren Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 1:34 pm Jespren(Quote)

As someone else in the same boat, how horrible! Completely inappropriate and just wrong in so many ways. So sorry you had to deal with this.

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Tee Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 2:01 pm Tee(Quote)

There is no excuse for his behavior. I’ve been assaulted by OB/GYN’s and it’s a horrific experience. I’m so sorry.

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Heather Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 2:05 pm Heather(Quote)

When you’ve been sexually assaulted, it can be easy to dismiss a doctor going beyond their job into full on assault, but that IS what appears to have happened here. I was assaulted by a tech doing my EKG, but afraid that I was being oversensitive until I asked my husband if I was wrong and he said he’d had to stop himself from physically assaulting the bastard because he WAS fondling me, but he didn’t want to frighten me worse and felt helpless/didn’t know what to do.

Unfortunately, I think some people go into OB/GYN BECAUSE they are perverts and use it as a way to legally assault women. I’m really, really sorry you went through this.

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E Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 6:47 pm E(Quote)

I think that is why I had such a hard time with this whole experience of pregnancy in modern America. I had a really hard time distinguishing when it was just me over-reacting and when it was them crossing a line.

I’ll tell ya, when he felt my breasts and then said I was not engorged..in that moment I felt “Oh, he’s just checkin my breasts for engorgement..” I was so emotionally in shock from the birth that I just let them do whatever. I feel the most regret regarding how poor of care my son got and how I just deferred to the medical staff. I tried to advocate for his pain relief at least but for the most part I just let them do whatever and listened to them and even got upset if I even seemed to be upsetting them (backward huh?). I knew better deep down, but I was in shock.

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abba12 Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 2:09 pm abba12(Quote)

That’s not what the comment submitted appeared to lead to at all. I’m so sorry this happened to you. I take it you would have been happy to see him other than for a VE or any other exam.

If it happened recently you should report him, this is exactly why I don’t think men should work in the childbirthing fields. If you formally stated you did not want him present at the birth, him coming in during transition was wrong, that can be reported. I’m sure he will have some absurd medical reason for the weird VE though. As for the ‘breast exam’ he needed your consent to do that, as you were asleep he did not have it, what he did was a criminal offence. A doctor can never perform any exam while you’re asleep unless you consented to it beforhand.

It is absolutely not your fault what happened with him, but should you find yourself in this situation again you need to know that you have every right to say ‘I’m sorry, I will not see this doctor for this appointment’ and walk out. It’s your body, and never feel like the doctors can tell you who will and won’t touch it. What I said above is still valid, you simply can’t garuntee female only care without going to a female only practice, but you didn’t want female only care, just female only exams, which is perfectly reasonable to me. In labour, more tricky, but in labour, if you were willing to see them outside of VEs, it probably would have been ok for a little while, especially with midwives around. I don’t know about you, but for me most of my triggers just didn’t appear in labour, I was too preoccupied with labouring lol.

If you have another child I wish you luck in getting the care you need.

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C.Pratt Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 2:19 pm C.Pratt(Quote)

I’m so sorry

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Heidi Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 3:30 pm Heidi(Quote)

I am so, so sorry. I really think something is wrong with that man. I mean, the whole thing with the exam is just flat-out awful–sexual assault and battery, like others said. That would be bad enough by itself, but the thing about touching your breasts while you were sleeping? Further confirmation that this guy is scuzzy.

Like others, I hope you are able to have better experiences with OB/GYN care in the future.

I would suggest even if you don’t want to lodge a formal complaint, consider putting what you told us in a letter and keeping a copy of it if you need to deal with a brainless receptionist in the future. (And I *was* a receptionist, so I think I can say that receptionist *was* brainless. My boss–a gov’t employee–told me that the first point of contact between members of the public and him. If I had a poor attitude it reflected badly on him. So this receptionist should have done a better job listening and understanding that this was a serious need that should be individually addressed.)

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N.B. Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 5:29 pm N.B.(Quote)

The part about him touching you while you slept shook me to the core. I was given a pelvic exam while I was half conscious in the ICU, for a condition completely unrelated to anything reproductive. I was so sedated I couldn’t speak or move, but I was aware of being violated. All the staff denied anything like this happened and I was even told I must have been dreaming. I’m sorry, I think I know what a speculum feels like shoved in with no warning, and I definitely can tell a dream touch from a real one. I also was able to identify the doctor by his voice, even though I had never met him while fully conscious. A dream, huh? My complaint was, unsurprisingly, ignored. The only thing anyone wanted to hear from me after that was when they would be receiving their payment, which I still refuse to give them.

OP, I am incredibly sorry you had to endure this. My heart goes out to you. I have been reading this site for a while and been hesitant to post, but I had to this time. No one has the right to touch you without consent, and this doctor clearly needs to be given not just a taste, but a full g*ddamn dose of his own sick medicine.

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kate, ren's mama Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 6:13 pm kate, ren's mama(Quote)

I am so, so sorry you went through this. That OB was not just unprofessional or questionable, he is a rapist and a sociopath. His comments to you imply to me that he was fully aware of what he was doing and that he was enjoying it. It wasn’t just a misunderstanding, it was intentional assault. And given his history with you and your request not to see him, both the VE during transition and the “breast exam” are absolutely criminal assault. I am utterly aghast. These things should never happen. I really, really hope you’ve been able to find some support and closure working through this, and I hope there’s some way you can nail this asshole to the wall if you decide to pursue some kind of action against him.

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JessicaKC Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 6:40 pm JessicaKC(Quote)

I have major issues with exams and I have not been abused. I have never understood why they thing we should be just fine with these exams and if not, we are weird. I have been told there was something wrong with me mentally. There was for sure somethign wrong with this man. He sounds like one of those that got into that professional because he likes to feel dominant to women. I am sorry you went through this.
Thank goodness for this web site. I hope it makes a difference to a lot of women. I hope it makes me stronger when it comes to this kind of thing.
To N.B. I have heard of hospitals using unconcious women to train young doctors on vag exams… I do not doubt what you are saying at all. I am sorry!

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E Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 6:54 pm E(Quote)

And thanks to everyone for responding in such a free and supportive way…

I don’t think I could file a complaint at this point. It’s been 3 years, and I feel like I just can’t go back to this. I’ll think about it.. but I honestly could do without ever seeing that hospital again..

I suppose I should. It might be cathartic, but it also might make me incredibly angry. I don’t know.

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Angelica Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 7:04 pm Angelica(Quote)

Now I’m gonna be the world’s biggest hypocrite for what I’m about to type, but if you do it, think of all the other women who might be spared from this guy. What he did to you was assault. No good doctor would touch you without waking you up first so you were aware of what was going on. Good doctors explain procedures they’re going to perform and explain to you what you’re feeling if you can’t see it, and warn you if it might be startling or painful. It is not right, and no words can explain how sorry I am that this happened to you.

That said, I haven’t reported a lot of violations to me because I just wanted to forget it and put it out of my mindThat doesn’t make it okay and it probably would be better if I did say something, but it’s my choice I suppose. So I certainly don’t judge you for that. I totally understand. But I do hope you will gather up all your support report this practice and find some healing, even if all you do is write a nasty review on rate my md.

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Knitted in the Womb Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 7:38 pm Knitted in the Womb(Quote)

Okay, as if your treatment at the prenatal visit wasn’t bad enough..the vision of a Dr. checking a woman’s breasts while she is asleep is…OMG, my mouth was hanging open there.

There was NO reason for the Dr. to do this. I have had 5 children, and have never had my breasts examined post-partum.

If this was anytime within the past 5-10 years I would really, REALLY encourage you to write a letter of complaint about this to the hospital this happened at and the office manager at the practice this OB works at, and the state medical board. If it happened more than about 2 years they likely can’t do anything official about it…but if this OB did this to you, he’s done it to other women. Establishing a pattern of behavior may help to get him out of practice.

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Corita Reply:
January 7th, 2012 at 8:08 pm Corita(Quote)

I am sorry this happened to you.
Please do what you need to do to heal.

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SculptorAlison Reply:
January 16th, 2012 at 11:18 am SculptorAlison(Quote)

I’ll tell you what was wrong with him: he knew he could take advantage of you and so he did. The overly friendly chatter in the halls, the bizarre exams, he was enjoying all of it. It’s never too late to make a complaint. Please do. I didn’t when I felt violated by an OB and I really wish I had. I would now but I cannot remember his name and he doesn’t seem to be in practice anymore at the hospital where I saw him.

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Heather had this to say, Jan 7, 2012 @ 2:10 pm (Quote)

I expressed the desire to have only female OBs at my birth and was told to find another practice, then. By the ONLY practice that took my insurance. Not “in the area” — the only one at all. I wish I hadn’t been adrophobic, because the female OBs there were HORRIBLE and the only doctor in the practice that actually supported natural birth was male. Ended up having him for an exam and I wish I’d just switched to him, because it was the most respectful appointment I had my entire pregnancy.

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