Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Jan
2
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“The Baby’s Not Breathing, So We’re Bagging It.”
“The baby’s not breathing, so we’re bagging it” – L&D Nurse calling back into the room to give an update on a baby taken immediately to NICU. The parents thought “bagging” meant placing it in a body bag because it had died.
There are 53 comments to this post.
This just shows you how insulated some hospital cultures are. When doctors and nurses are that out of touch with how non-medical-care-workers speak and think, they need some kind of training in how to speak compassionately and simply when conveying information.
While it’s bad to be talked down to by a doctor or nurse, as if you’re stupid, it’s not wrong to expect you’ll be told information without the lingo.
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Cynthia Gabriel Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 9:49 am (Quote)
Yes! The thing is, they are doing their job. But you can hire a doula to do HER job, which is often to handle these EXACT moments! For this moment, it is worth the money to have memories forever that are not tarnished by hospital staff just doing their job. I write about this exact thing here http://thebirthmuse.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/second-in-series-reasons-to-hire-a-doula-that-dont-usually-make-the-top-10/
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v had this to say,
Jan 2, 2012 @ 6:25 pm (Quote)
While knowing that bagging is for trying to save people not breathing right now, I can see panicing when hearing that a new babe isn’t breathing and hearing this directly after. Someone with all of the people around when there is a problem and oftentimes when there isn’t, there should have been someone there to explain *everything* to the parents!
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Jenny Islander had this to say,
Jan 2, 2012 @ 6:34 pm (Quote)
It’s nice to see a break from the usual round of “Stupid, Irrational, or Evil?” This is none of those; just clueless.
“The baby needs some help breathing, so we’re helping him/her get air” would be a much kinder, less terrifying, and still accurate explanation.
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Okay, that’s a really poor choice of words on the medical staff’s part. But I’m going to have to agree with Jenny in the above comment. This was not downright stupid or evil. It was just a case of the medical staff not choosing their words properly.
OP, I’m really sorry. That must have been really scary to hear.
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writing as a maternity nurse, yes bagging is the expression used amongst us. I am assuming it was a dire emergency and they could not think to translate and saying to the parents, we are breathing for your baby since he/she is not able to breathe on its own. so sorry!
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It may help for doctors and nurses to revise their “insider” lingo. Verbs like “bag” and “section” need to be among the first pieces of slang down the toilet.
Apart from the “bag,” I really have a problem with the “it.” Girl. Her. Boy. Him. Human. Capice?
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jaed Reply:
January 2nd, 2012 at 10:21 pm (Quote)
“Cut her” can go, too.
So can calling a woman “a failure” when her cervix isn’t dilating fast enough for the OB’s liking.
We once had a post here with a nurse calling an IV bag “a baby” as slang… telling a mother to “hold the baby” referring to the bag… and the mother had just experienced a loss. And we had people in the comments trying to justify and excuse this. No. Just no.
Every field has slang, but some slang needs to either change or be kept STRICTLY and INVARIABLY out of the hearing of patients. And no, please don’t tell me that medical personnel are Special and need to have their own lingo without any thought of the other people they deal with every day. I manage to switch from programming cant to English when talking to customers every day, and I’m not even dealing with people who are terrified for their loved ones.
Yes, yes, doctors and nurses are Special Snowflakes and we must make Exceptions for them because they are Busy and Important. Whatever. Think about who you’re talking to before you open your mouth, and if you can’t be bothered then avoid getting into the habit of using terms like these in the first place.
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OMG I nearly stopped breathing when I read this. I’m not a medical worker, but I’ve had enough sick people in my family in dire medical situations that I could figure it out relatively quickly… however body bag would’ve been my first immediate thought too.
I’m so sorry, OP.
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Susan Peterson had this to say,
Jan 2, 2012 @ 8:40 pm (Quote)
I think this is just one of those things that happens by mistake.
No, medical workers are not going to stop saying “bagging” or “section”. Every group, profession, etc, has its special terminology. I am reading some really good cop murder mysteries now, and part of the interest is learning a bit of cop talk.
We do have to be reminded to think about whether we will be understood. I have been guilty of saying “Your H&H is low” and being surprised by the look of incomprehension on the patient’s face. In my current job as a disability analyst, sometimes I forget and say “CE” (consultative examination) instead of “disability exam” and have to correct myself.
I am rather surprised to find out that these people didn’t know what “bagging” meant. They must not watch “ER” or other medical shows. But someone should have been with the parents who could see the looks on their faces and realize what was wrong and quickly step in to explain.
As for calling the baby “it”, I think this is standard English, or was standard English not too long ago, and maybe they were too busy breathing for the baby even to have noticed its sex.
I hope this all turned out OK and baby is fine now?
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K W Reply:
January 2nd, 2012 at 8:57 pm (Quote)
I didn’t know what “bagging” meant until I read this thread. Then again, I don’t watch TV, and I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen an episode of ER. So no, not everyone knows what these terms mean.
To the OP, I’m so sorry. I would have interpreted it the same way.
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first time mommy Reply:
January 2nd, 2012 at 9:03 pm (Quote)
Agreed. I had no idea what it meant until I read this thread.
I’ve only used the term “bagging” when I’m talking about literally putting objects in a bag. Like at my retail position, I’ll offer to “bag” up the purchases.
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Darsy Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 7:12 am (Quote)
Oh, okay. I guess they didn’t deserve to be treated with delicacy because they don’t watch medical procedure shows. That’s much more logical than taking 3 seconds to say something that implies the baby isn’t dead! Glad you were able to clear that up for us.
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Jespren Reply:
January 4th, 2012 at 8:04 am (Quote)
As for “it”, it has never been nor is it now correct English, it’s lazy, politically correct English. The ‘gender neutral’ pronouns in English have for hundreds of years been the masculine form of the word. Calling an unknown person ‘he’ is no longer politically correct now, so now ‘proper English’ is to say ‘he or she’ll. But since almost no one remembers to say ‘he or she’ in standard conversation the less correct but easier ‘they’ or ‘them’ is usually used. ‘It’ is just rude and dehumanizing as ‘it’ is never appropriately applied to humans in proper English.
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Susan Peterson Reply:
January 4th, 2012 at 11:34 am (Quote)
No, for “child” or “infant”, “its” was commonly used for many years. See these references:
I only laughed because you said you were Sir Geoffrey’s son. But no matter—’tis a wise child that knows his own father.
[1823 Scott Peveril III. x.]
It’s a wise child that knows its own father. How wise does a child have to be to know its own great-great-grandfather?
[1983 R. Davies High Spirits 119]
She called her father John instead of Thomas‥but perhaps she was willing to verify the old proverb, that It is a wise child that knows its own father.
[1762 Goldsmith Mystery Revealed 21]
You are correct about “his” being the common gender in English-and it still is among those who prefer gramatical correctness to political correctness, among whom I count myself. But I think for the words “baby, infant, and child” the distinguishment of sex was not considered important. Remember that little boys used to wear dresses until they were three or four until not so long ago. My grandparents had a picture of themselves with my father at 3 wearing a dress; that would have been in 1923, in the Netherlands.
Wikipedia says,”In English, words such as it and its genitive form its have been used to refer to human babies and animals, although with the passage of time this usage has come to be considered too impersonal in the case of babies.”
One author who consistently wrote in this manner was the children’s author E. Nesbit, who often wrote of mixed groups of children, and would write, e.g., “Everyone got its legs kicked or its feet trodden on in the scramble to get out of the carriage.”
The latter instance of usage sounds odd even to me, although I don’t remember being bothereed by it when I read all the Nesbitt children’s stories as a child.
So, it has been correct usage for a child or baby, but may now not be. So far from being politically correct, I think the usage reflected a fairly low status of babies and children. And also, in many cases, that sex was irrelevant to the matter under discussion.
Susan Peterson
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Susan Peterson Reply:
January 4th, 2012 at 11:37 am (Quote)
I see that in one of my examples, “his” was used, while in the rest “its” was used. In the first example, the speaker is talking to a man, so the particular child involved has a known gender. The rest of the speakers use the usual form of the proverb.
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Attention everyone who work in technical capacities:
Not everyone speaks or understands the following dialects of English: technical, medical, mechanical, psychological, pharmacological.
Also, unless there is a genetic anomaly, children have genders, and they always have names.
Could the nurse have been more tactless?
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While I agree that hearing that phrase and not knowing what it meant must have been terrifying for the parents, sometimes when you’re in an adrenaline rush and trying to get a new baby to breathe, you just say the quickest thing that comes to your mind. And as for the “it,” we may not know the name and may not have even looked at the sex of the baby yet- we’re trying to get him or her to breathe! That takes priority over being PC. I’ve had to give parents quick and probably insufficient explanations in emergencies before, but I always sit down with them afterward to explain in detail.
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Darsy Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 7:16 am (Quote)
While I totally agree with your comment as to why it was said, I think that it’s easy to forget that this is a place to post things that have negatively (or, on TT, positively) affected the people who heard them. Most of the things posted here should be avoidable and/or shouldn’t be said, but that shouldn’t diminish the pain or fear of hearing this for the person who submitted it just because the fact it was said at all might have been mostly unavoidable!
I hope I’m making sense! I could have used brevity and said ‘yeah, but that doesn’t make it hurt less.’
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As a doula, I sometimes feel like half my job at a hospital birth – particularly for first-time parents – is interpreting the hospital for my client. Interpreting the lingo that, no, the med staff will not stop using or revise; interpreting the machines; just making it not so much of an alien environment. I don’t read any malice here, just either distraction or lack of experience with relating on a more personal level to the parents.
How scary this must have been for mom. I’m so sorry you went through this, OP – even as a professional, I had a scary moment when my third was born. (Actually, it would’ve been fine – if I weren’t a birth professional, ironically.) As my body was pushing, I heard the midwife say, “just push and you’ll have this baby. Just give one more push and you’ll have this baby.” As a doula, I’ve seen midwives say this quite a few times – when the baby was in trouble. They didn’t want to tell mom that and frighten her, they just wanted to get the baby out fast. So, I thought my baby was in trouble! Unfortunately, my body was acting on its own, and there wasn’t a darn thing I could do. Fortunately, the baby came out quickly. And was fine. How much scarier it must have been, to hear a word we commonly associate with death (yes, that’s also common parlance, as in “tag and bag), right after hearing about a baby not breathing!
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Kate, Ren's mama Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 9:57 am (Quote)
I’m glad you mentioned this. I was going to come here and say the same thing: one of the huge values of having a doula (and I think they should be at EVERY birth) is explaining this kind of thing and helping parents navigate the confusing environment of the hospital.
I work with paramedics, and I can assure you all that “bagging” is SUCH a common term that I’m sure many medical professionals don’t even think of it as lingo. In the heat of the moment, with baby’s safety foremost in her mind, I’m sure the nurse was not even remotely aware of the possible alternate meaning of the phrase.
How wonderful, then, that there are professionals like doulas dedicated to the *parents* well-being and emotional needs during a birth. If only there were one at every birth to help clear up confusions like this one.
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WellBegun Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 6:52 pm (Quote)
I so agree with you – doulas should be at every birth, and the cost covered by any insurance that covers any sort of maternity care. It’s crazy that most insurance with maternity coverage will cover unnecessary inductions, analgesics, elective epidurals, etc… but not a doula!
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Wendy Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 2:21 pm (Quote)
I had a doula for my first two births and, largely for the aforementioned reasons, I intend to have one for this next baby. One thing to keep in mind is that there are areas the completely lack doulas and even doctors or entire hospitals refusing to work with them. The unfortunate fact is that not all women have access to doulas. 
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Mama Wrench had this to say,
Jan 3, 2012 @ 1:59 am (Quote)
My first thought was that “bagging” meant “provide respiratory support” and that “it” referred to the baby’s respiratory system, not the baby him/herself. Even if it did refer to the baby though, it’s still proper English that the pronoun for “baby,” “child” and “human” is “it.” I can see how some would find it offensive, but it’s not incorrect, just a stylistic and cultural difference.
And no, I haven’t had cable in over 7 years so I didn’t pick it up from watching medical shows, more from reading and researching medical information… something anyone planning to birth in a hospital should probably be doing in the first place.
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mharry Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 11:26 pm (Quote)
So on top of all the other things mom are supposed to do when pregnant (exorcise, but not too much, know how to sleep, how to bathe, how to eat, every single drug and food not safe for pregnancy, how to get around without driving, the exact chemical composition of every product and the containers of every product, myths vs facts, their own bodies, how to advocate for themselves and their children, and the exact way to always raise their children the best etc etc) they now should be making flash cards of medical lingo and slang terms on the off chance that someone uses a term they don’t recognize. Because clearly part of being a competent mother is also to have basically have a medical degree the batter to hand yourself over to medical staff who can’t use normal words around you. Got it.
It’s no wonder moms get such flack just for existing when everything always without exception falls on your shoulders. I don’t know how you ladies do it. The constant judgment makes me want to sterilize myself with a friggin’ spoon.
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mharry Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 11:29 pm (Quote)
*Because clearly part of being a competent mother is to basically have a medical degree the BETTER to hand yourself over – I make all kinds of lovely typos when I’m flustered.
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Mama Wrench Reply:
January 4th, 2012 at 1:42 am (Quote)
It’s not just hospital births, it’s any birth. We typically expect that a home birthing mother will be more informed about what’s going on than a hospital birthing mother, not only because informed mothers tend to choose the path of least interference when it comes to their children, but also because the (very rare) complications that can arise from a home birth necessitate an informed and active mother being aware of what certain signs may mean for her and her child. So why do we not expect hospital birthing mothers to be just as informed about the environment into which they’re stepping than home birthing mothers? Take a hospital tour, ask questions, read what you can get your hands on. Most of us seem to find time to read all the Ina May Gaskin and watch BOBB we can get, not to mention read the entries here, that if it seems there are gaps in our awareness we should have a FEW minutes to catch here and there.
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And why the F*@K isn’t this baby still attached to his/her umbilical cord? And how the H*LL did it get out of the room so fast! I’m mean really people, you caused your own problem in your hurry to use your fancy one handed clamp and cut cord dettacher! Repeat after me, put the baby on mommy’s belly and wait for the placenta to come on its own. See how the cord keep pulsing while the baby attempts to crawl up to the mother’s breasts. Of course that only works if the baby isn’t drugged all to H and it isn’t a c-section. OP I hope your baby was fine and it all turned out well in spite of a rough start.
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Isella Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 5:22 am (Quote)
Who says this was a problem caused by cutting the cord too early? In the case of a dire emergency, there is no time for waiting for anything! If there is a case of severe respiratory distress or something else, I as a mother would not want to wait. Get my baby the emergency care it needs right away! If it’s a matter of life-or-death, I -will- let them get my baby out of the room fast if it means saving their lives!
OP I really hope your baby was okay. It must have been terrifying letting that medical lingo slip and scaring you even further!
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Jane Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 5:39 am (Quote)
Ideally when a baby is born not breathing, the medical staff should leave the umbilical cord intact so the baby is still receiving whatever oxygenated blood is available through the cord and placenta, working on getting breathing started while the baby is still attached, right there next to the mother. They should have the baby right there on the bed while they work.
Yes, a bit awkward, but better for the baby not to disconnect the one remaining source of oxygen once it’s known the baby’s other source of oxygen isn’t up to speed yet.
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Isella Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 5:51 am (Quote)
That’s true. This late at night my knee-jerk reaction was having this picture of my baby still attached but just lying there with no other care. That… freaked me out a bit. 
If the staff was there working on my newborn still attached on the bed that’s another story, and one I’d much prefer!
Still, I know some complications sometimes prefer a more ‘heavy-duty’ approach, so I’d have no objection to having my baby taken to NICU if they couldn’t do anything for by them right then in the room.
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This one was mine.
It happened during my first 6 weeks as a midwifery student and on my first ever placement in the hospital.
My midwifery mentor and I were caring for a couple who had taken 14 years to conceive their baby. When the baby was born it was obvious the baby needed some resuscitation and at the time (this was 16 years ago) we had no resuscitaire in the room, so the baby was taken to the resus room. A few minutes later a midwife stuck her head through the door and very matter of factly stated this.
I was horrified. I had never heard the term before. I looked at the parents and they reacted like me- complete shock with mouths open.
My mentor just said ‘OK’ so I asked her what it had meant. Thankfully she then cottoned on and gave a full explaination to the parents.
I know this was just a thoughtless remark with no malice but the effect those words had was so awful and they have stayed with me for a long time. It taught me a valuble lesson about how important the words you choose are and how one persons flippant remark can be utterly devastating for the recipient.
Thankfully, the baby was OK.
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*this* is yet another reason why families need doulas and not just doulas that know how to rub a back or use a rebozo but are familiar with the medical side of birth. the interventions and the language. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had to explain what and why the nurses/docs were doing/going to do what they were doing because they didn’t at all or didn’t make sure the mom and family understood and not just in emergencies.
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Vy Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 7:44 am (Quote)
Agreed – I chose doulas with extra qualifications and it definitely paid off for me. Not just to explain medical terms, but to explain what was going on matter of factly, so that I could decide whether to go along with it or not.
I realized afterward that my birth might have been a lot more chaotic if I didn’t have my doula, or that particular midwife.
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Melissa C Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 8:25 am (Quote)
Saw this recently http://thebirthmuse.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/second-in-series-reasons-to-hire-a-doula-that-dont-usually-make-the-top-10/
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WellBegun Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 8:28 pm (Quote)
This! I’ve had hospital birthing clients who have hired me specifically because of my comfort level with the medical side of things (even though I also specialize in natural birth). Even something as simple as the nurse coming in to chart, throwing some phrase that the couple is like, “what?” People should be as comfortable and safe as possible to give birth, and that includes not being intimidated by an alien environment and language.
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I’m glad to have seen this story as it shows how important language, even the most simple lingo (and “bagging” is bare bones, down to basics medical lingo) can affect someone not in the know. I rarely work with pediatric patients or neonates right now, but it’s something for me to keep in mind even when working with adults. I can easily see me poking my head out of a room to tell another nurse that “we’re bagging!” because that would summarize a LOT about the patient and the need for additional assistance quickly. In a couple of words I would have summarized status, a plan of care, given the other nurse an idea of what to expect next, summoned additional life-saving help and equipment to the bedside and…scared the bejeezus out of a family member.
I’m not saying I can always remember to change my lingo all the time, but remembering that this very simple phrase that truly only brings up images of ventilating a patient with a bag valve mask to me is giving horror story nightmares of body bags to someone else is good to know. It’s only through awareness that our practice changes.
I can tell you, I have used this phrase countless times with nothing but the best intentions and never had cruelty on my mind nor was I being stupid. Unaware perhaps, but we ALL do this EVERY day in any of our fields. We never know how our simple words might be taken by someone else and it’s a good reminder to try and listen to yourself out of context whenever possible.
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Wendy Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 2:23 pm (Quote)
Tracy, thank you so much for your thoughtful reply and commitment to encouraging greater sensitivity with patients. 
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Kate, Ren's Mama Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 5:10 pm (Quote)
Yes! Thank you so much, Tracy!
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Tracy Reply:
January 4th, 2012 at 2:04 pm (Quote)
Of course! We always need more sensitivity in all things! I think healthcare does a pretty good job of focusing on that with kids. You never tell a kid about IV contrast dye because they hear die. You never say you’ll take your pulse or heart rate because they hear that you’ll be stealing it. Etc. etc. But it’s easy to forget that adults hear interesting things in healthcare lingo (and other fields, too, of course). Tiny steps towards trying to understand everyone’s point of view, which is a huge undertaking. :/
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Honestly, this doesn’t seem that bad to me. It sounds like the medical staff were in the middle of trying to resuscitate the baby, which should clearly take priority. And there was a midwife in the room with the parents to translate medical lingo into lay speech. Had there been no one there to translate, it obviously would have been much worse.
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Jade Reply:
January 15th, 2012 at 6:29 am (Quote)
Except that the midwife in the room was a very new mid student who also thought that bagging meant body bagging not resus bagging.
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Jade Reply:
January 15th, 2012 at 6:33 am (Quote)
The midwife in teh roomw itht he parents was a brand new midwifery student who also didn’t undertand the phrase.
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Jade Reply:
January 15th, 2012 at 6:34 am (Quote)
wow, typos are bad tonight
*in the room with the
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Susan Peterson Reply:
January 16th, 2012 at 11:58 am (Quote)
She was a midwifery student who hadn’t been to nursing school first? Because any nurse would know what “bagging” meant in that context.
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Jade Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 5:09 am (Quote)
I have no idea about overseas but in Australia I know that you don’t have to be a nurse to be a midwife. The 2 degrees are seperate things. many (most?) midwives ARE nurses, either they did nursing first then mid or they did double degrees but it is certainly possible to be a midwife without a nursing degree.
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While I understand how upset the parents were when they misunderstood this one is not the fault of the doctors or nurses. That is typical hospital shorthand, which they need to use to speed things up in times where everyone needs to move fast. I don’t think this should be on the site. Are these parents the only ones who haven’t seen a medical show ever? Watch even one episode of Grey’s Anatomy or ER or M*A*S*H even and you’ll know what that means.
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Add Your Comment.
O…M….G.
I’m at a loss of words. BAGGING IT?! NO! How heartless!
I’m so sorry this was said to you, OP!
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