Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Dec
20
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“…There Is No Difference Between Advocating For Yourself And Being Antagonistic.”
“Continued insistence on advocating for yourself is really just antagonistic behavior and will result in another cesarean section. There is no difference between advocating for yourself and being antagonistic.” – CNM to mother who was planning a VBAC.
There are 28 comments to this post.
“Do as you are told or you are just a bad person who is being intentionally difficult on purpose just to spite us.”
o_O
I know we know a lot of them THINK that, but really, to have cold heart and hard face to actually SAY it…. Makes you wonder what goes through her mind that she keeps to herself!
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Wow, who knew “I would prefer a medication with fewer side effects” was the same as “I hate you and refuse to do anything you say!”
This says a LOT about this CNM’s perception of her clients and her job. 
And the threat at the end: advocating for yourself WILL result in a c-section, but the mom already knows that not advocating for herself will result in a c-section.
Sounds to me like this was calculated by the CNM to end a conversation where the mom was advocating for herself. >:-(
This mom should advocate for herself one more time, and in this way: Run! Run like a citizen of Tokyo fleeing Godzilla! Run!!!
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Not shocked by this one, really. I was using a homebirth “CNM” for most of my last pregnancy and she did not like it when we asked questions and became insistent about it. She never would tell us who the backup would be if she couldn’t make it and instead of alleviating our concerns she told us that she expected us to get over things and when we didn’t it just annoyed her and she told us that we were being difficult and she didn’t trust us because we didn’t trust her.
Of course, she’d done little to gain our trust and quite a few things to damage the relationship but the fact that we didn’t just blindly follow and never question really made her angry. Like, actually angry, she even yelled at me.
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The Deranged Housewife had this to say,
Dec 20, 2011 @ 6:12 am (Quote)
In some ways, this is probably one of the scariest comments I’ve read on here. Like saying, “Whatever you do or say, it won’t matter and we will do what we want to you.” The thought is horrifying, honestly.
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Mama Wrench had this to say,
Dec 20, 2011 @ 6:15 am (Quote)
So, let’s break it down: “We really have no medical reason to cut you open, but now that you’ve made it clear that you object to being subjected to unnecessary surgery, you’ve just given us emotional leverage to use against you whenever we wish, for any reason we wish. Therefore any time you question us, challenge our authority, or speak for yourself in any way, we’re going to remind you of your biggest fear and make sure you’re more focused on that than on what we want to do to you and your baby.”
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Kit had this to say,
Dec 20, 2011 @ 6:16 am (Quote)
Want to bet this is the same CNM as the last post? First, wanting a doctor who will do the best for us is putting our baby’s life in danger, then continuing to advocate for ourselves is being argumentative. I think this CNM long since stopped providing “patient care” and just started moving moms down the assembly line. So very sad.
And for what it is worth, I have worked with some awesome CNMs. One with my daughter’s birth and a group of 3 with this pregnancy. I hope the 4 I have had the pleasure of receiving care from are more indicative of the profession than this one.
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Also, even if mom is being antagonistic, oh well. So you have a difficult patient. You deal. You don’t threaten to cut her open. If a police officer comes across a surly drunk, for instance, he can’t say, “Oh yeah, by the way, I’m carrying a gun, if you don’t listen to me, I’ll shoot you.”
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Kit nailed it. I submitted these together. I was seeing the top-respected (by the natural birth community!) midwifery center in town, and told them up-front of my emotional fears after my last c-section. I said that I’d felt shut out of my daughter’s birth and asked if we could get the Dr. to drop the drape so I could see my son born if a c-section was necessary. I was told that they work with too many doctors and couldn’t guarantee anything. Each midwife in the practice had a different answer, ranging from “should be no problem” to “I’ve never seen this done and it’s probably impossible”. I asked them to discuss as a group and come back with one answer. They said I was trying to be too controlling of my labor and they thought I should get more therapy! (As if a counselor would make it so I didn’t care how my birth went!) I said I was just trying to address something I felt negatively affected my birth and my ability to care for my daughter before and was asking for their help. I told them I felt like I’d been classified as an antagonistic patient, but that I thought there was a difference between that and trying to advocate for myself. This was the response. I told her I was transferring.
Sorry for the long (and double) posts, but it’s nice to get this out there. Thanks!
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Selia Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 9:31 am (Quote)
Since when is having preferences being too controlling!? I just imagined someone going to a hairdresser and requesting a certain haircut or color, and the hair dresser claiming she was being anatagonistic and controlling and she will do what she wants to the lady. And hello, childbirth is so much more! Now I just thought of one posted a while back where a doc said “go the Burger King if you want it your way”. So I guess the less important things we get to decide on, like our burgers and hair styles, but major life events we do not!? Glad you transferred. I wouldn’t have had any trust after that!
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Jane Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 9:39 am (Quote)
Good grief! You weren’t asking that the doctor use only a prime number of sutures when stitching you up! You were asking for the *drape* to be *lowered* and that was antagonistic and controlling?
They were trying to gaslight you with the “get more therapy” line, to make you doubt your own sanity. Any competent therapist would have replied to that with “Perhaps you should get different midwives.” I’m so sorry.
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Bonita Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 11:29 am (Quote)
Did her head explode when you told her that you were transferring?
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Susan Peterson Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 2:25 pm (Quote)
That was a perfectly reasonable request. It was what I requested when I went for my VBAC; that if I had another C section I be allowed to watch. I even asked for a mirror! My OB said sure, no problem. As it turned out, I didn’t have another C section: I had a midforceps rotation delivery, which I watched in the mirror, at least whenever the bodies of the doctor and the medical student didn’t pass between me and the mirror. But this OB knew he would be the one doing my C section if I had to have one, because he intended to make sure I got a VBAC if at all possible, and he promised to be there. I think that the midwives can’t speak for all the doctors, because some of them are too insecure to want to be watched, and some of them feel too uncomfortable with the idea of a patient seeing herself cut open, and because they are uncomfortable with they idea, they will refuse. I think the midwives should have said that if you have a C section, the delivery is no longer in their hands but in the surgeon’s hands, and they will ask for this for you, but they just can’t promise that you will get it. There is no need for them to put you down for asking for something perfectly reasonable, even if they can’t promise you will get it.
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JessicaKC Reply:
December 21st, 2011 at 6:27 am (Quote)
That is bizarre! Totally different than my midwife. Her one requirement is that I have no unspoken fears and no major fears left going into labor, because she has seen them affect labor drastically. She wants me to be proactive. I’m sorry you went through that.
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Rhoda Reply:
February 20th, 2012 at 8:40 pm (Quote)
As a woman with a doula for the first time; I hope you can understand why I got such a shock when I read this that I inhaled to start laughing and did it too quick and chocked on my saliva. Thanks for that. What are you trying to do? Bring on labour?
Deary me. Stand your ground. Yes, it is possible to be antagonistic, but antagonistic is NOT making other feel uncomfortable about their ignorance, limitations or view, simply by expressing your own. And advocating is certainly not synonymous with being antagonistic.
I bet she thought she was pretty clever to come up with a negative word beginning with A to put you in your place.
Glad you transferred.
<3
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This one makes me angry for more than just birth question. Advocacy or assertiveness is women is usually interpreted as aggression or antagonism and it totally undermines the whole gender. You’re simply not allowed as a woman, girl, wife, or (especially) as a mother to speak up. It’s not just a failing in the Birth community, it’s a failing in society and I will agree with the comment above: One of the scariest comments I’ve read on this site.
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Natalie St.John had this to say,
Dec 20, 2011 @ 6:50 pm (Quote)
I’m pretty sure as health care providers, our job is to advocate for the patient. Maybe someone missed that part of nursing school.
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Harald Alicia had this to say,
Mar 8, 2012 @ 3:19 am (Quote)
I agree with your say. Yes, sometime it hampers instead of doing better. Little bit freedom is good; in fact necessary to get improved output. Thanks for a thoughtful post.
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Say what?!?! Now I’m a little more nauseous than I was before.
Ok, I’m stopping now before the bad words in my head come out.
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