Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Dec
16
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“Oh, We Don’t Listen To That If You’re In Your 20′s…”
“Oh, we don’t listen to that if you’re in your 20’s. We all know how you 20-somethings are with all your partners, so we just plug our ears and pretend you didn’t refuse.” – GYN to woman who had declined Sexually Transmitted Infection testing, as the doctor proceeded to do it during a PAP smear, disregarding her wishes.
There are 73 comments to this post.
Ah, except there are usually higher rates of new infections in seniors, as they have not been educated as well about STDs and in this modern age have taken to new partners after divorce or loss of a spouse, but without condom use as pregnancy is not a concern. Not to mention the who concept of consent.
[Reply]
I would be closing my legs and out of there so fast the dr wouldn’t know what hit him and then be reporting him to the the licensing board.
In fact hen a dr did a swab to check for a yeast infection and instead tested for Trich. and Clamidia even after I told her that I am in a monog. marriage where we both worked from home and he didn’t have a license so he couldn’t drive anywhere and we had moved to a new city 6 months before so he didn’t know anyone out here anyways. Therefore he couldn’t have been having an afair and sine we had both tested clean I was sure of what it was, she still wouldn’t listen to me. when the test results came back and she told me I should be happy I tested neg for STI I said well I told you that but what about the yeast and she said oh I didn’t test for that. I walked out of there reported her to the clinic manager and then filled a complaint with the College of Physicians and surgeons in my province.
[Reply]
J_holmes88 Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 1:19 pm (Quote)
I don’t want to be mean or anything but that picture isn’t really appropriate.
[Reply]
Cat Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 1:39 pm (Quote)
I actually don’t see anything inappropriate about that picture. It’s a beautiful pair of breasts with decoration! 
[Reply]
Lexie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 2:48 pm (Quote)
If you have a problem with my image please avoid the blog attached. This is my work e-mail and I am a submissive sex blogger. There is nothing inappropriate about it, it’s my lifestyle and a huge part of my career.
[Reply]
j_holmes88 Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 3:30 pm (Quote)
I respect your lifestyle choice but I do believe that bare breasts with nipple clamps is deemed pornographic to most sites.
[Reply]
Angelica Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 8:41 pm (Quote)
I didn’t even notice it til you pointed it out. :-\ If you don’t like it, you can disable avatars on this site with Adblock.
[Reply]
Tara Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 9:13 pm (Quote)
Can you explain to me how to do that? Is it something I need to download elsewhere?
I agree that the avatar is inappropriate.
[Reply]
j_holmes88 Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 12:00 am (Quote)
Is that something you can instal to a phone or e-reader because i’m on my nook tablet
[Reply]
Next stop would be to contact the state licensing board and my insurance company.
I don’t care if declining STD testing is a stupid decision. The mother declined testing and it was performed anyhow. The doctor should honor her informed refusal.
I would also document that the doctor stated s/he categorically tests individuals in their 20s without their consent.
OP, if you didn’t report this doctor (and the whole practice, since the doctor stated “we all” ) then go ahead and do it now.
I’d like to see changes where the doctor has to pay out of pocket for the testing if it’s done without permission.
[Reply]
Wow. This is blatant disrespect for the patient, and, I’m pretty sure this falls under patient assault. Or was it battery? Touching a patient against their wishes. I always confuse the two…
Apparently, this doc is either an old fogey who needs to retire or get with the program, or a (not sure the word) who sowed too many wild oats as a twenty-something, and therefore thinks everyone does. You know, doc, some of us know how to control ourselves.
[Reply]
Mama Wrench Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:39 am (Quote)
Assault is the spoken or expressed intent to physically offend, battery is the offense itself. So technically it’s both — she expressed that she was going to perform a procedure the patient explicitly refused, then performed it.
[Reply]
I actually had this happen in an er. I went in for a bladder and uti and they tested for all sorts of stuff. As Dr was doing exam she commented, “wow, you have a lot of wear don’t you?” I said, “I have 5 children and all were born vaginally so I suppose I do!” She says, “That would explain it” Then proceeds to do all sorts of STD testing. I had been happily married for 10 years at that point and I did tell her that all the babies were from the same dad. My insurance DIDN’T cover said tests and I had a $600 testing bill. It was years before I had another exam after being talked to like that.
[Reply]
Michelle Potter had this to say,
Dec 16, 2011 @ 6:03 am (Quote)
Wow. I would have been so pissed. Especially because I’ve been with the same man since I was 19. (I’m 30 now.)
But even if a girl was bedding a different man every night, she still has the right to refuse testing. It’s her body, her decision! No arrogant, overbearing jerk of a doctor has a right to override someone else’s bodily autonomy like that!
[Reply]
This was mine. I had gone to this doctor for the 2 exams before this, and he was so nice, polite, and willing to sit and answer questions. He is my mom’s doctor, and she recommended him to me because she liked him so much. During the question period, he asked about the STD testing, and I refused, telling him that my husband and I were both virgins when we got married, and that my last 2 had come back normal, so I didn’t see any reason to do it again, especially considering the cost. He and the nurse were both in the room when I told him this. Later, when I was up on the table and he was doing the pap, he told the nurse to hand him the STD testing kit. She reminded him that I had refused it and why, and I told him again why I didn’t need it. He dropped this gem and proceeded to do the test anyway.
[Reply]
Lisa Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 6:53 am (Quote)
Forgot to add that I also told him that my husband and I have always been faithful to each other and never slept with anyone else.
[Reply]
Melissa Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 1:24 pm (Quote)
Apparently he still thinks he’s more your mom’s doctor than yours…treating you like a kid. (Not to say that your mom would have wanted this reaction to your decision, just wanted to point out the nasty paternalistic attitude.)
[Reply]
Lisa Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 1:33 pm (Quote)
Well, my mom thought I overreacted, so there you go…
[Reply]
Knitted in the Womb Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 8:52 pm (Quote)
Wow. I’m so sad that your mom thought you over reacted. To not be upset that someone thinks you are lying….
If you are paying for the testing (or your insurance is paying for it), I think you have a right to decline for sure (of course I’m also a crazy one who thinks you should be quoted a price up front before you get the treatment…but apparently I’m odd that way)! If your body is involved in any way…you have a right to decline.
[Reply]
Arzt4Empfaenger Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 1:24 pm (Quote)
How awful. I definitely would have disputed this cost with the insurance. What a close-minded ass.
[Reply]
Corita Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 7:33 am (Quote)
Lisa,
To me, the fact that the doctor waited until you were in a “compromised” (read: vulnerable, compliant) position to tell you he was going to do it anyway– and then did it– is a HUGE red flag.
I posted below that this is the kind of paternalism that pervades medical culture and perhaps this kindly old doctor is just so filled up with what often seems to be benign paternalism that he would be very upset to consider he did anything wrong. But the fact is, he did.
Your insurance company shouldn’t have to pay for it, sure. But this doctor
also should have to face what is wrong with he did, and does deserve a respectful but firm explanation of why what he did was completely unethical, for a regular person but specifically for a doctor.
I am sorry this happened to you. And if it bothers you, and you have this kind of relationship with your mom, she might benefit from a full explanation of why this upset you. People often say, “You are overreacting” when they mean, “I can’t handle the implications of how strongly you feel about this.”
[Reply]
This is battery, plain and simple. It is also a breech of medical ethics as it was performed against the explicit refusal of consent.
I hope OP has/will consider/is in the process of filing a complaint to the medical board overseeing this provider.
[Reply]
This is also the exact kind of scenario that proves how deeply entrenched paternalism is in the medical community. It’s the silent, everyday paternalism that grinds away at the patients.
Next time someone asks, “What paternalism? Why don’t you just trust your doctor?” there is no need to tell a dramatic story or speak of “birth rape.” This right here goes on every. single. day.
[Reply]
Knitted in the Womb Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 9:24 pm (Quote)
Yep. Exactly. It happens every single day. And the reverse…where a woman asks for specific tests…and is declined because it is “all in her head.”
A friend of mine–who is a nurse and has been for nearly 40 years–recently went to her Dr. because she wasn’t feeling well. He refused to do testing on her, told her it was no big deal. A week later she was in the hospital–for a week. The Dr.s there told her that if she’d gotten the testing she asked for when she asked for it she likely could have been treated much more simply.
When I was 18 I developed symptoms that I felt were indicative of a Pilonidal Cyst–I have a family member who had one, and they may be hereditary. I went to multiple Dr’s, all who told me I was wrong, that I just had a low grade infection. This went on for over 2 years, before a Dr. finally confirmed that I had the cyst. Of course by that point I was ready to graduate college, and lost my medical insurance, so I couldn’t get it removed. And it got infected…while I was uninsured. Very expensive ER trip that I paid off by taking a second job at McDonald’s. Finally I was able to get the cyst removed once I was insured again–a year after getting the accurate diagnosis–3.5 years after I’d first told a Dr. that I thought I had a cyst.
[Reply]
Yikes…when I got married I was 21 and my husband was 28, we were both virgins and I was able to refuse a pap before going on BCP due to the fact that I was still a virgin. I had my 1st pap AFTER my twins were born, when I was 23.
I wasn’t given any flack for it, in fact, my OB was hesitant to even do my 1st pap because he said I was so low risk and all that. I still had him do one, and all is and has been fine.
[Reply]
Samantha had this to say,
Dec 16, 2011 @ 7:31 am (Quote)
Not everyone is a big slut in their 20s, I sure was, but hey doctor no need paint every one with the same slutty brush!
[Reply]
jenni Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 10:04 am (Quote)
yeah, seriously. i’ve been married since i was 21, and only been in a relationship with the same guy since i was FOURTEEN! i have NEVER slept with another person, and i wouldn’t do it. because i have morals, unlike this Dr does.
[Reply]
Ellen Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 10:15 am (Quote)
Thanks for telling the rest of us that we don’t have morals.
[Reply]
Cat Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 10:21 am (Quote)
I think she was saying that because she’s married, she wouldn’t sleep around. I feel the same, I’m in a committed relationship and I wouldn’t have sex with anyone else. But have I? Yes. Many people, both men and women. I DO have morals, and would never cheat on anyone.
[Reply]
jenni Reply:
December 18th, 2011 at 9:54 am (Quote)
Thank you Cat, that is what i was intending! i can see how my poor wording allowed for misinterpretation.
I have been in a relationship with the same man since i was 14, and i have chosen not to cheat on him because i have morals. I’m not implying that people who have more than one relationship in their lives and therefore more than one partner do not have morals.
But like Cat said, the cheating would be lack of morals, not the fact that a person would have more than just one relationship in their lifetime.
[Reply]
Lora Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 2:19 pm (Quote)
Exactly. Husband (then boyfriend) and I were each other’s first and only (at 22 and 21, respectively). And lest we blame such lack of sluttiness on religion, we are atheists, so nope. See what happens when you generalize, Doc?
OP, I am sorry this happened to you!
[Reply]
Sorry to hear that you had to go through that,
So old fashioned girls don’t exist anymore? and even if not old fashioned does it make all 20′s women sluts? I am so much better than you?
I would yell at that OB and never come back to the practice as well as let others know what he/she said to me as well as anyone else. I switched offices from one doctor to another because I felt that he was inappropriate with me over less than that.
[Reply]
Sabrina had this to say,
Dec 16, 2011 @ 7:41 am (Quote)
Wow. I got married at 19 years old to an amazing man who has never been with anyone but me. He doesn’t even have the time or privacy to cheat, haha. So yeah, I’m 100% confident when I turn down STD testing. If this happened to me I would be irate. And you better believe I am not paying this jerk for clearly ignoring my refusal of consent.
[Reply]
If it weren’t for the bill or the possiblity of having a false positive follow you around for the next 10-20 years I would agree with the doctor. It isn’t like the test itself has major risks involved. But if the woman has reason to believe that it isn’t a problem then the doctor has no right to reach into her wallet and lift $600. Bodily autonomy aside, these tests cost money. And if you aren’t the one paying the bill then you need to ask permission before putting a woman who knows who she has slept with in the position of getting a bill for a test she never needed in the first place. It is just rude and paternalistic, not to mention one size fits all medicine. In addition to reporting this jerk, any bills should be submitted to his/her office to be paid by the person who couldn’t take NO for an answer.
[Reply]
Corita Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 8:38 am (Quote)
Why would you agree with the doctor if you go on to agree that 1)bodily autonomy, 2)paternalism and 3)the patient’s own money are all factors which make this unethical?
[Reply]
Details Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 9:17 am (Quote)
Because collecting the sample poses no risk. I thought I stated that. Unlike a GD test that can leave you throwing up. Or a U/S that might cause bubbles or hot spots. Or an amnio that can lead to miscarraige. Or any number of oter tests that these doctors push. This one at least doesn’t introduce its own risk factors. So taken on only a risk vs. benefit basis there is no reason to turn it down. Which is how doctors think. Right up until the point where you ask them who the heck they think is going to pay for it.
[Reply]
Details Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 9:19 am (Quote)
Besides agreeing with people is the fastest way to get them to listen to you.
[Reply]
Brige Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:23 am (Quote)
The risk is the false positive following you around for the next 10-20 years… just ask me about that one…
[Reply]
Corita Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:27 am (Quote)
Oh, I get it. You meant, as a patient you would have agreed to let the doctor do the testing even if you knew there was no chance of infections.
Still, it was *her* decision to make.
[Reply]
Danielle Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 12:07 am (Quote)
I disagree entirely. Agreeing with people does not EVER get people to listen to you. If you agree to letting them do a test regardless of your refusal, then you are just setting yourself up to be ignored and walked all over by that doctor. You need to stand your ground to get them to listen.
[Reply]
oh and my cousin went through something like that, where they said that may be her husband is cheating and she doesn’t know about it.
Also, this is about money. They make money on it and the lab charges you like $1,500 – 3,000 depending on the lab. So its all worth it for them.
[Reply]
Details Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 7:56 am (Quote)
Yep, right up until the point where they start getting the bills themselves! Money talks and BS walks. Send them a letter stating since they preformed the test againt your consent that they bill is now their responsiblity. Especially when the results come back NEGATIVE!
[Reply]
Wow. In my entire life I’ve been with 4 men. I met my 1st husband when I was 22 and got together with my second husband two months after my 1st died when I was 30. Since I’m 36 now, that means that in 14 years I’ve been with 2 partners, both of which I was married to. If I refuse STI testing, it’s with good reason, doc. Shove it where the moon don’t shine!
[Reply]
first time mommy had this to say,
Dec 16, 2011 @ 8:51 am (Quote)
Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to mourn the loss of our beloved, respected, dear friend Informed Consent. Informed Consent always stood up for what was right and refused to back down. Informed Consent listened to you and valued your decisions. Will be greatly missed by people everywhere.
[Reply]
perfectionist had this to say,
Dec 16, 2011 @ 9:19 am (Quote)
Oh heckkkk no…
I was a little wild when I was a teenager… but when I got into a long term relationship, we both voluntarily got tested, and got married when I was 20.
I would have been sooo angry. If I don’t consent, I DON’T CONSENT. End of story. That goes for everyone, not everyone except a doctor. Geeze.
[Reply]
well it’s good to know once you get into your 30′s all the STD’s you got in your 20′s magically go away!
yeah, offensive and impractical. my husband and I got married in our early 20′s both virgins. I’d love to know how any STD’s could have snuck in….
[Reply]
This makes me so angry! My very first pap smear was done by my old family Dr who insisted that I needed to be tested because he had been told that I ‘wasn’t behaving as a good Christian girl should’. I was 16 and had no idea that I could just tell this man to leave me alone.
The second he was down there he told me “Oh looks like you have pelvic inflammatory disease, and it doesn’t look like you’ll be having any children either.” He then gave me two shots in the ass, an oral antibiotic and an antibiotic gel that I had to insert. Two weeks went by and I was still on all the meds. I finally got sick of waiting for my results and called the office and was told by the secretary that I passed with flying colors. This Dr still insisted that I was infertile however. Thanks Doc! I love my son and I wouldn’t give him up for the world but seriously, I would have been a lot more careful about having sex if I had known you were full of crap!
[Reply]
Corita Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 12:03 pm (Quote)
What a creep that doctor was. He is the kind of guy our children have to be taught to stand up to; the everyday predator, the everyday bully.
[Reply]
Miryah Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 12:34 pm (Quote)
At least I was able to learn a valuable lesson from him to pass on to my children. I now research EVERYTHING, and I know that if I don’t want a Dr to touch me than they don’t touch me. This man caused me tons of medical problems ( over prescribed antibiotics and put me on a steroid inhaler for ‘mild asthma’. I’m still recovering from taking it for 6 years and I’ve been off it for 4 years now.) Defiantly won’t be letting this happen to my kids!
[Reply]
Lora Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 2:23 pm (Quote)
Wow. I have no words. Have you submitted here yet?
[Reply]
I went in for my postpartum Pap and several weeks later, got a bill for my Pap and for STD testing. Called the midwives’ office and they said that it was standard and that they couldn’t do anything differently since it was billed by the lab, not by them. I explained that I didn’t know I was getting the STD test, didn’t want it, didn’t need it and certainly didn’t want to pay for it. Their response: everybody gets STD testing, we don’t allow people to decline and since it’s the lab’s bill, you’re going to have to pay it.
Ask me how thrilled I was about that. Every time people ask me about these midwives (who have a great reputation), I tell them that I had a great birth with them, but was really disappointed by their cavalier attitude about everyone having to get STD tested, even without consent.
[Reply]
Michelle Potter Reply:
December 19th, 2011 at 12:44 pm (Quote)
Wow. I would love to go down to their office and proclaim VERY LOUDLY (so everyone in the waiting room could hear), “I’m sorry, you broke the law and violated my privacy by performing a test on me without my permission and NOW YOU WANT ME TO PAY FOR IT?”
[Reply]
I saw a NP for a cyst and she said she was “going to take a culture just in case.”
I assumed she was making sure it wasn’t infected. Got a bill for a chlamidiya (not a clue how to spell that) test.
Hoo boy. Imagine if my husband thought I had reason to believe I had it! I’d have some explaining to do. Wasn’t happy about that.
When DH & I got married (I was 19) my gyn forced me to have a full panel of STD tests because she said even if I trusted him, she didn’t. (?)
[Reply]
The things that bother me about this discussion are:
a) Most women who get cheated on by their partners believe they’re in a safe, monogamous relationship when they’re not. Men who cheat are the exception not the rule, but people shouldn’t be so sure there’s no possible chance they could catch something. Lots of times, the way they find out is when the test comes back positive.
b) People lie about being virgins. Same caveat as above – the exception not the rule but it happens. Even people who are loving, caring partners sometimes hide things because they’re embarrassed or ashamed.
c) HPV can show up on a test even when you’ve previously tested negative and are in a truly monogamous relationship. I know women it’s happened to who didn’t know they had HPV and by the time it was discovered they already had cervical cancer or pre-cancer.
All that being said, everyone has the right to refuse the test. The doctor was wrong for doing the test after she refused and doubly wrong for being so rude and condescending. But it’s sad when you know someone who thought she was in a good, monogamous marriage then found out her husband had been sleeping with other men for the whole 20 years they were together. Everybody who knew him was shocked that he had cheated and managed to keep it a secret – except the guy he was sleeping with, who was also married.
[Reply]
can i just say after reading all the comments that i am soooo glad i live in australia. number one none of this insurance crap you have to go through (of course private health insurance does help in some cases but its not necessary) and number 2 none of this unecessary testing, i have never once in 2 pregnancies had anyone mention a VE or smear during an appointment and the only screening is a blood test with pregnancy confirmation, and a GTT at 28 weeks (i also get an antibodies screen being Rh negative) we only have pap smears every 2 years and if your due for one during pregnancy then its done at your 6 week PP check…
and as for the original post how rude, i was 19 when i married my husband, i would be beyond pissed if someone suggested that because im only 22 i have had multiple partners and if they ignored me due to my age that would be against the anti-discrimination laws and i would walk out and leave a formal complaint
[Reply]
Add Your Comment.
Stereotype much? We 20 somethings don’t need you to be our mommy, thank you very much.
[Reply]