Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Nov
16
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“…What A Beautiful Little Rose Bud!”
“His future wife will thank me. What a beautiful little rose bud!” – OB after circumcising a newborn boy.
There are 145 comments to this post.
EW!
Inappropriate much!?
Is the doctor some kind of pedophile, looking at a newborn in that way!?
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Dreamy Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 8:16 pm (Quote)
Well, I think it’s gross because of the unnecessary surgery aspect, but knowing both doctors and artists, I don’t think a doctor has to be a pedophile to make a comment like this– in a vacuum. Or at least, not to THINK a thing like this. Surgeons and such generally think of the body differently and aren’t necessarily being “sexual” even when speaking of sex organs and sex. Even the comment about his future wife (hey– also heteronormative)– inappropriate to say, but not necessarily anywhere near pedophilic IMO.
Now, I’m not defending this under the circumstances, because it’s super-problematic.
But what I mean is…
If this comment were made about a surgery to remove an actual deformative growth on a penis or something, then maybe the OB shouldn’t SAY something like this, but merely THINKING it doesn’t mean he/she is looking at a newborn “in that way.”
The problem IMO is that A) the doc sees a foreskin as deformative/unattractive or at least of no consequence, and the surgery as harmless or an improvement and probably also B) that he/she said this out loud.
JMO, but in and of itself… Simply thinking that you, as a surgeon, have made a part of a boy’s body “pretty”– even if a sexual organ– does not equal your being a pedophile or seeing the boy as an attractive sexual object.
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Kari Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:00 am (Quote)
Great comment, Dreamy. I agree with you entirely.
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Dreamy Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:21 am (Quote)
Thanks! I mean, obviously this whole situation is highly problematic, but the idea that the doc must be (or was likely to be) a pedophile really disturbed me. Maybe because my mom and aunt are doctors, and I am an artist’s model, but IDK… The human body– including reproductive organs– can be found beautiful in some way, shape or form, without there being sexual attraction behind that appreciation.
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Details Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 11:50 am (Quote)
Great comment Dreamy. It is okay with me if the doctor wants to admire his work and if he feels pride in doing a good job. Yes, he should most definately keep it in his head. But no he isn’t a pedophile. If you are having a circ done you want someone who isn’t going to say, “Well there I ripped it off you. It is a little crooked, but I guess that is why the anti-circ people call it mutilation.” That would be truly creepy.
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Kate, Ren's Mama had this to say,
Nov 16, 2011 @ 6:53 pm (Quote)
Oh, yeah. Nothing says sweet and sexy like an open wound on a newborn’s genitals. *puke*
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That’s disgusting. And given how many women I know who are livid about their husband’s circumcision, probably wrong.
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Amy Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:08 am (Quote)
Livid? That seems extreme, given that his parents were just following the social norms of their time. I mean, they didn’t have the internet then to offer a counter point of view.
My mom caught all kinds of hell in 1979 for not having it done to my brother. All kinds of hell.
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SculptorAlison Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 11:45 am (Quote)
I’m not sure I would go quite as far as “livid,” but I am very angry at the medical establishment that allowed circumcision to become the norm because of what it has taken away from my husband and myself sexually. It being the societal norm at the time doesn’t make it suck any less. On second thought, I AM livid about it.
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Jane Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 3:31 pm (Quote)
I was livid at my MIL when she told me the story. She was pregnant with DH when she sat with her nephew during his circ. She said she’d never let her boy have it done, but still did. 
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edouard Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 10:37 am (Quote)
@Amy. My mom caught hell for 1-2 months after my birth, for not having me cut, to the point that she felt violated. She stopped that by threatening to leave my father, who never mentioned circ to me even though he was and I wasn’t. This was in 1949. I felt very weird growing up with a Weird Dick, but now am very grateful that my wife gets to experience a husband who has all the factory installed moving parts.
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Budgie Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 12:27 pm (Quote)
Im not livid about my husband being circ. That would be akin to him being livid at me for developing stretch marks. I love him for who he is.
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Toni Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:24 pm (Quote)
If circ were a natural occurance, particularly surrounding his carrying your offspring, I could see your point. But it’s not. Your husband didn’t “develop” a circ, hon. Hell, if it was done to him as an infant he didn’t even get a choice. And no one is livid *at* their husband… if you read carefully they are livid that this barbaric practice was done *to* their husbands. Like how your husband might be livid if you had been circ’d as an infant girl… not that he’d be livid at you (you were an infant – it wasn’t your fault), but that he’d be livid that such an awful thing could happen to someone he loves…
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First and foremost, I really pray that this mother’s baby wasn’t cut without her consent. You hear of that mistake being made all too often and I can’t imagine how those parents feel!
Second of all… it wasn’t a necessary comment! A little creepy, in my opinion, but I don’t think it means that this doctor was a pedophile. I think it simply means that this doctor lacked a brain/mouth filter.
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So much circumcision hate!
My husband had to be circumcised as an ADULT due to a certain issue that is in part hereditry, and makes sex impossible or painful until the foreskin is removed. Circumcision as an adult is so much worse in every way than as a baby. There is a chance any sons we have would have the same problem so we are considering having them done as babies to spare them the pain of doing it as an adult.
Some people also have strong religious convictions regarding circumsicion, and whether you agree or not, they have freedom of religion, just as you do to raise your own children how you see fit. Some people have just as much issue with things like the poster above who complained that it was wrong to assume he would marry a woman! You are allowed your opinions and beliefs and to place them on your children, why are others not allowed theirs? The only reason her comment is more acceptable is because it is the majority opinion, whereas circumcision is the minority opinion. But both are only opinions, one is just considered more ‘right’ at this moment in time. 50 years ago the other would have been considered more ‘right’. They are opinions, and you can’t have yours while denying someone theirs.
How about if you want to complain at someone who had an unnececary and painful procedure performed on a baby you go and complain at those people who’s infants have their ears pierced. I am amazed the number of people who are so against circumcision, yet pierce their babies ears. There is no medical need or argument whatsoever, and it is just as painful as a baby as it is as an adult, so why is it we do that? Because the majority opinion seems to be that, at this moment, it is acceptable. And yet we are still faced with opinions.
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abba12 Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 9:31 pm (Quote)
And I’d like to specify this is still a creepy thing to say to the mother, I’m not defending his weirdness at all, though I do understand that doctors take pride in their cosmetic procedures to produce an acceptable end result. Still, probably shouldn’t have said it.
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Nicole Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 10:08 pm (Quote)
Make all the excuses for unnecessarily cutting your children’s genitals you want, it doesn’t make it right. How likely is it that they will have that problem? Now weigh that with how painful the procedure is (WAY more painful and disfiguring than ear piercing, by the way), and the fact that they will lose 1/3 of their sexual sensitivity. Still okay? How about the fact that even though circumcision is more involved as an adult, they will still have the choice in the unlikely event that this condition IS inherited (which it probably isn’t, there are very few genetically transmitted genital malformations, they almost all occur in the embryological state). It is HIS BODY. NOT YOUR CHOICE.
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Sara Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 10:38 pm (Quote)
Oh, cool, I get to complain since I do neither.
Seriously, getting circ’ed as an adult is worse than as a baby? Are you fracking kidding me? You do know that the majority of babies are cut without any or at least without adequate pain relief? That there’s a lot of doctors who still believe that newborns don’t feel pain? I’ve heard one doctor say that, when a baby cries during circumcision, it’s just a “reflex”, not because he’s actually in pain.
The only difference is that babies don’t consciously remember. That’s why it’s “okay” and “better”.
Yes, there certainly are reasons for having babies cut. But in 99% of the cases, it’s purely cosmetic. And that is, in no way, shape or form, okay.
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VW Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 11:34 pm (Quote)
What other body parts are you going to remove prophylactically? Appendectomies and tonsillectomies are real PITAs to recover from as adults too.
I had a lot of UTIs as a kid, sometimes even kidney infections. That didn’t make me want to remove my daughter’s labia to lessen her chances of getting them.
And for the record, she can have her ears pierced when she’d old enough to consent. Thankfully, she can let them scar over if she doesn’t like it.
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Mama Wrench Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 1:52 am (Quote)
I don’t object to circumcision as a medical procedure which the person undergoing it CONSENTS to. Nor do I necessarily object to it as part of a religious ceremony. But considering that Orthodox Jews are .17% of the population, and observant Muslims just a bit more, that STILL wouldn’t justify ROUTINE infant circumcision. (And before you ask, no, there is NO religious proscription in Christianity for circumcision. There’s quite a lot forbidding it as a religious ceremony.)
We don’t prematurely lop off parts of our kids for the purpose of “saving” them from an inevitable surgery later on down the line. Just because circumcision is not invasive doesn’t mean it’s not surgery, or that it’s not painful or that it always has a good outcome. Ultimately what every parent needs to ask herself before making the decision is, “If my son is that .1% who has a tragic outcome, would I ever be able to look him in the face and say, ‘I did this to you when you were too small to speak for yourself’”? I’ve seen a botched circumcision, it was horrific. I would NEVER put my son at risk of that for no good reason.
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Tora Spigner Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 2:57 am (Quote)
Your husband got to make the choice to have his foreskin removed, only 1% of men have a problem with their foreskin and find it medically necessary to remove it. Since you have no way of knowing if your son will have the same issue, you should leave his foreskin alone and let him make that decision if he needs to. Infant circumcision is painful and it is impossible to know how much of the foreskin is to be removed, as the penis has not attained it’s full size. Also, since the foreskin is attached to the glans like a fingernail to the finger, it must be ripped off before it can be removed. At least an adult has usually retracted and can determine how much should be cut off, what kind of anesthesia and analgesia can be used and can, most importantly, give Informed Consent. Leave the babies alone, let them be the ones to make that decision. His Body, His Decision.
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Jane Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 3:57 am (Quote)
Why do you believe circumcision doesn’t hurt a baby? Do babies not have nerve endings?
They sell *diaper wipe warmers* because babies are sensitive to that cold diaper wipe on their bottom. You expect me to believe a baby is sensitive to a cold diaper wipe on his diaper area but isn’t sensitive to the surgical removal of the foreskin?
There are medical reasons to circumcise a baby, but please don’t tell anyone it’s painless for the baby. It’s only painless for the surgeon.
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Joseph4GI Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:21 am (Quote)
I’ve got news for you; all surgery hurts. You’re assuming that circumcision will be the only surgery your children will have to undergo. Why not just remove your son’s appendix, adenoids, tonsils, testicles and prostate while you’re at it? He might have to have them out later on as an adult, and they’re just sooooo painful. And you know, one in 6 men will get testicular cancer. What if hubby loses a nut to cancer? I’m sure you’ll consider removing your son’s at birth. Hey, if he removes a testicle, he cuts his chances of testicular cancer by 50%. Don’t you know?
Nobody cares about “religious convictions.”
Nobody.
If you did you’d support female circumcision, because for better or for worse, it is a “religious conviction” to those who have it performed on their daughters. Or are only parents of boys allowed the “privilege” of “parental choice?” In the countries where it is performed, female infant circumcision seems “right.” Maybe it’s just “opinion” that female circumcision is “mutilation,” right? Who’s “opinion” are you valuing here?
Ear piercing is a non-sequitur. Doctors are not giving prince alberts to children, they’re cutting off part of their penis. Circumcision would be more akin to removing your child’s earlobes. What’s more, doctors are neither offering ear piercings nor prince alberts in the name of “medical benefits.” If they did, you know they’d get in trouble.
Oh, and for the record, yes, I am against the piercing of baby’s ears too. What have you to say about that?
“Religious freedom” and “parental choice” fail as alibis for male infant genital mutilation. If they didn’t there’d be no need for circumcision “research.”
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Joseph4GI Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:35 am (Quote)
CORRECTION: One in six men will get *prostate* cancer as per the ACS.
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Details Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 11:45 am (Quote)
Just as a little note on prostate cancer – just because 1 n 6 or whatever “get” prostate cancer doesn’t mean it kills them. I believe I saw another thing that said 50% of the men who live to 85 have prostate cancer at the time of death. It wasn’t what killed them, but they had it. Always watch the details on these studies. They were always paid for by somebody and that somebody usually has money at stake. When you are reading these things look for what they left out. That is what we are always doing on this site is looking for what was left out- frequently a control group when testing cytotech or continuous fetal monitoring or having permission to get up and walk around vs. actually getting up and walking around. You have to learn to read the entire study rather than just quote (or in your case mis-quote) the sound bite.
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Mama Wrench Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:43 am (Quote)
I don’t even feel like piercing ears is comparable. You can take out a piercing and, if it’s not too old, it’ll close up. If it is too old to close, it doesn’t impact your ability to hear. And you don’t end up with an open wound being exposed to urine and feces while it’s healing. You can try to restore the sensation and appearance of a foreskin but you can never grow the organ back.
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Robyn Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 6:23 am (Quote)
I’ll admit that I’ve made the comparison myself. Mostly because my husband is still against not circumcising. We did it to our first and I refuse to do it again. For some reason, we’re on the same page about ear piercing. Neither one of us believe that we should do that to our child when they don’t have a choice. Let them get older and stress to them that once they do this, it is a permanant change to their body; that for the rest of their life they will have holes in their head that they were not born with.
And that is where the comparison comes in. Both procedures are body modification. Both procedures are something that should be the decision of the person who’s body it is being done to. Many parents choose to take that decision away from their child with both of those procedures.
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Mama Wrench Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:39 am (Quote)
I’ve heard it justified both ways. Some people think ear piercing is worse because it’s readily visible. Personally — mine were done when I was 2. I don’t remember it but my mother and aunt both say I asked to have it done and that I didn’t mind it. It doesn’t bother me because I rarely wear earings anyway; yeah, they’re “holes,” but they’re so old now that I barely even see them unless I’m wearing earrings, which is pretty rare. Also, my ears aren’t something central to my personal identity, unlike genitals being central to a person’s sexual identity.
Not saying infant ear piercing is completetly kosher. I just don’t think it’s comparable to circumcision, at least in degree, if not kind. I’ve never heard of a baby losing her ears and sense of hearing from an ear piercing… but I *have* seen a baby boy need a complete amputation after circumcision, and that’s burned into my memory.
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Elly-Rose Reply:
February 7th, 2012 at 1:25 pm (Quote)
I know I’m really late to the party but I have to point this out.
Female circumcision is a cultural thing, not a religious practice. Yes, it is seen more widely in Muslim communities but that still does not make it a Muslim practice.
Being for male circumcision for religious reasons does not mean you’re for female circumcision because that’s not a religious practice.
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Jay Walker Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:55 am (Quote)
It sounds like your husband may have had phimosis. What he may not have known is that there are plenty of non-surgical remedies to stretch the foreskin to cure phimosis so that obliteration of the foreskin and included sexually sensitive nerves is not necessary. If men can stretch penile skin to recreate a faux foreskin with what little they have left after circumcision, intact men can also stretch a tight foreskin to allow it to accommodate proper comfortable gliding action for sex.
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Toni Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:14 am (Quote)
“Circumcision as an adult is so much worse in every way than as a baby.”
Oh yeah! An adult has lower risk of infection or hemmorhage, is able to be properly (read: adequately) anesthetized, up to and including general anesthesia if he so desires, has input as to how much he would like “taken off”, is much less likely to end up with a botched circ since he is fully grown and done developing, can take care of the wound himself and report post-op problems/pain immediately (and verbally), doesn’t have an open wound wallowing in a feces filled diaper several times a day (even for a few moments that has to hurt like hell, and account for much of the increased risk in infection infants experience, you know, besides the immature immune system factor), can take post-op pain meds (beyond infant Tylenol), and most horrifying of all – can understand what is happening to him. Oh wait… how is it worse for an adult?
“How about if you want to complain at someone who had an unnececary and painful procedure performed on a baby you go and complain at those people who’s infants have their ears pierced.”
I happen to believe that is wrong too. Of course, ear piercing is not nearly as invasive or risky. Apples and oranges, hon. Why not compare apples to apples – male infant circ to female infant circ…. Are you in favor of removing the prepuce of your daughters? Why/why not?
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JessicaKC Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 2:22 pm (Quote)
We have those issues as well, in both my husband and my families. It always amazing me how angry people get, when the men in my family made it very clear that it was awful to go through as an adult and to just do it as a baby. I am supposed to look at thses men (more than a dozen) and say they do not have a point? There is no reason to be so angry about this issue.
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Toni Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:31 pm (Quote)
The only way it’s “better” to do it to an infant is that the infant won’t remember. Your infant also won’t remember if you lock him in a closet or burn him with a cigarette, but we don’t allow such abuses to occur. Why not? Isn’t it better to abuse a child (who won’t remember) than an adult/older child? But wait, we shouldn’t abuse anyone… Hmmm…
If some men in your family truly needed it done, sure that sux. Any surgical procedure sux, even if it’s necessary. But who the hell are they to force it to be done to a child when it isn’t necessary? A child who may not even end up with their problems in the first place? Of course I wonder why so many men in your family had issues. I do know the US is sorely lacking in good intact-care knowledge… I suppose they just could’t find docs informed enough to deal with their issues without amputating (the rest of the world seems to manage without going to such extremes). That is not a reason to perpetuate the practice, thereby perpetuating the ignorance. It is a reason to better educate doctors on how to resolve issues related to the foreskin without resorting to amputation…
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JessicaKC Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 2:23 pm (Quote)
Oh, and anyone who compares female and male circ has NO IDEA what female circ is about or what is involved, because if they did, they would not make that comparison. They are in no way the same!!!
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Mama Wrench Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 2:41 pm (Quote)
Okay, so tell us, from a purely medical standpoint, what the difference is. Tell us the difference between limiting a woman’s sexual satisfaction and stimulation, and limiting a man’s sexual stimulation. Explain why routine preemptive cosmetic surgery is preferable to selective, corrective MEDICAL surgery.
Seriously. I’m waiting.
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JessicaKC Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 3:10 pm (Quote)
I do, in a post below. And if my circ’d husband were any more sensitive, well, there would be issues! SO take you anger somewhere else.
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Anya Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:55 pm (Quote)
I hear this complaint often from Pro-Circ people.. thing is if your Husband was intact he’d last longer because his penis would work the way it’s supposed to.
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Sara Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 12:17 am (Quote)
Your husband was cut as an adult, right? Then his sensitiviy is in no way comparable to someone who was cut as an infant. For him, being cut is relatively new and his glans are still sensitive. When men are cut as infants, their glans (mucous membranes!) harden over time, resulting in lessened sensitivity. It’s really not rocket science.
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first time mommy had this to say,
Nov 16, 2011 @ 9:48 pm (Quote)
Creeper, much? and who the hell refers to a penis as a “beautiful little rose bud?”
and um, DH is circ’d. (also as an adult due to an infection but that was way before I met him) And I’ve never thanked him. Again, WHO DOES THAT?!
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first time mommy Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 10:18 pm (Quote)
BTW – my own DS is not circ’d. even though DH begged me b/c of his own experience getting circ’d as an adult.
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Jo Ann Morgan Anderson had this to say,
Nov 17, 2011 @ 2:35 am (Quote)
Nope his future wife will hate you for her less sexual pleasure.
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Umm..seriously wondering who had the gawl to even submit this. Shame on doc for saying that, shame on OP for allowing her son to be cut.
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sarah Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:13 am (Quote)
Exactly what I was thinking ..
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Sigrid Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:38 am (Quote)
Honestly??? SO INSENSITIVE! I submitted it… as the nurse who overheard it in the nursery, not as the mother.
Do you guys even hear yourselves??
So Judgmental! Geesh! It makes me sick.
In my area, probably 90% of baby boys get circumcised. Not saying I agree with it, but I see it every day!
This particular OB is NOT a pediphile (oh my gosh, seriously???). He is one of the better OBs at the hospital that actually offers adequate pain relief to the babies and I honestly think he does the best job cosmetically. He just has a weird sense of humor.
No, I do not agree with infant circumcision… but I’m not going to go around saying “SHAME ON YOU!” to every mother that I work with at the hospital for consenting to it.
“you get more flies with honey than vinegar!”
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Mama Wrench Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:47 am (Quote)
When I was in the hospital with my son I had several nurses ask me if we were planning to circumcise. NOT A SINGLE ONE of them said there was no medical benefit until AFTER I declined.
Please, please — inform your patients if you ask them what their preference is. It’s the LEAST you can do. If there’s no medical benefit to justify the risk that should be the FIRST thing out of your mouth, not the last. (Not saying you don’t already do this but I was very upset at the way my hospital handled it.)
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Joseph4GI Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:50 am (Quote)
I agree we shouldn’t be judgmental of mothers or parents that agreed to go through with this.
I know that if I hadn’t known any better, I would have chosen circumcision for my future children, had a doctor told me they’d all get AIDS and die of cancer if I didn’t let him do it.
But you’re going to let the doctor get away with this?
Are you aware of what a “circumfetishist” is?
Check it out.
BE WARNED; not pretty.
Hate to say it, but if those words are coming out of that supposed “doctor”‘s mouth, there’s a good chance he is unabashedly expressing his interests.
http://circleaks.org/index.php?title=Circumfetishism
Yes, it’s out there.
No doctor is coming near my childrens’ genitals with a knife.
EVER.
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Sara Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:56 am (Quote)
Personally, I think I can be as judgmental of people who circ as I want to – I just wouldn’t say it to everybody’s face.
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Budgie Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 12:23 pm (Quote)
no but you’ll say it on the internet under the cloak of anonymity while easily forgetting that on the other side of the screen is a real person with real feelings who doesn’t need to be attacked and judged by you.
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Sara Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 12:20 am (Quote)
Oh, be assured, I will tell you to your face that it’s child abuse and I think it should be outlawed, just like FGM, if the topic comes up. Just like on the internet. If we talk about circ, bet your butt I’ll speak my mind. Just like a lot of convinced circ’ers who say intact boys are dirty and ugly and diseased.
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Kari Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:15 am (Quote)
The thing is, Sigrid, this is a forum for people who feel RIC is wrong. The commenters are not walking around the hospital saying this to new moms and dads, they are engaging ina conversation amongst themselves. Most normal, mature adults are considerate and sensitive in public and would handle their revulsion regarding this episode in a mature and responsible way. Here in this collection of kindred spirits it is totally appropriate to give vent to pent up frustrations and anger at what is done to boy babies’ penises. And yeah, check out the circumfetishist sites before you cavalierly dismiss the OB’s offhand comment. The whole point is he was NOT making that statement in a vacuum, and if he listens to the news at all (particularly sports) he can’t be unaware of what’s going on in Pennsylvania…he should’ve kept that comment to himself. As a nurse in the room (if I were a nurse nd had been in that room) I would’ve been horrified, anti-circ in my beliefs or not.
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Momoffive Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 9:24 am (Quote)
This is not a forum for people who feel RIC is wrong, this is a forum for people to share birth experiences and to support each other.
Circum is a touchy subject *obviously* and everyone has different beliefs and opinions about the matter. Choosing circ does not make you a bad or evil person…everyone is at a different place on the path trying to make the best decisions they know how to. Be tolerant, love people and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
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Rebecca Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 10:29 am (Quote)
Thank you for this comment.
I do not have an informed opinion about non-religious circumcision. I am Jewish (and by the way to the other commenter who mentioned Orthodox Jews, Conservative Jews require circumcision, and many Reform Jews circumcise for religious reasons) and for me and my family, not circumcising my son was not an option.
We talk about our children’s freedom of choice, and while to a point I do agree, I also acknowledge that our children don’t get a lot of choices. My children didn’t choose whether or not to breastfeed, whether or not to be cloth diaptered, worn in a sling, vaccinated on the pediatrician recommended schedule, go to kindergarten, learn to swim. The list is endless, and every single one of those decisions was neither medically neccessary and has life long implications.
As a parent it is my responsibility to make informed decisions for my children. Sometimes those decisions are religiously motivated. Sometimes they’re socially motivated. Sometimes they’re medically motivated. Every parent is doing the best they can with the knowledge they have.
Oh, for what its worth, I choose not to have an opinion on female circumcision, as I am neither part of that culture or the relgion(s?)involved. I have read about the medical implications, and while it isn’t something I would choose for my child, I also know that I would likely make another choice with a different set of cultural biases.
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Momoffive Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 11:17 am (Quote)
Yes, I agree. We all make decisions for our babies and children based on our experience, socially and religiously and personally to our best knowlege and ability. Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Mama Wrench Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 2:55 pm (Quote)
The difference is that the choice of whether to send your child to public school, or private school, or home school, doesn’t carry any risk of loss of limb. I understand the cultural and legal background of Jewish circumcision. (I’m a little less clear on Islam, to be honest.) I also don’t believe, from an anthropological standpoint, that the cosmetic surgery known as circumcision today is the same procedure Abraham performed on his son. (I could be wrong, but I don’t see much evidence for complete circumcision.)
All I know is that I would have no answer for my son if he was one of the, admittedly rare, boys who has a serious complication. And my question for observant Jews, without any disrespect intended, is, if your son experiences a serious complication, up to and including amputation, what would you say? I don’t mean this accusingly, I’m honestly asking. Because I think that it’s the question parents MUST ask themselves before making a final decision that could potentially end in catastrophe.
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Just An Anon Reply:
April 27th, 2012 at 5:11 am (Quote)
I know I’m really late to this conversation, but this is bugging me a LOT. I just want to point out that there is actually a huge difference between ritual Jewish circumcision and medical circumcision. In a Jewish circumcision, only the skin that hangs BEYOND what is needed to cover the glans is cut away, while in a medical circumcision, the entire foreskin is removed, leading to a hardened glans, hair on the shaft, uncomfortable erections, the whole nine. Jewish circumcision started off as a way to mark men as Jews thousands of years ago; the point was the look of the thing. Modern medical circumcision was developed specifically as a way to prevent masturbation, so the point was the loss of sensation and of sexual pleasure (without also causing the loss of the ability to father children). Even now that the point is filling hospital coffers, we’re still doing the ‘crazy Victorians who believe spicy food leads to impure thoughts’ penis flaying in hospitals, while mohels are just taking a little off the tip.
I mean, you can still give the bris a side-eye, that’s okay, but they deserve a lot less of a side-eye than hospitals.
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Mindie Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:58 am (Quote)
If you seen nothing wrong in what this doctor said, then why even submit it? You claim that you don’t agree with circumcision, yet you go on to defend the doctor and what he says. Very conflicting…
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jaed Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 11:41 am (Quote)
Scroll up and look to the right: “The purpose of this site is to capture the crazy but true comments said to birthing women by doctors, midwives, doulas, lactation consultants, and childbirth educators when they are having their babies!”
That does not say “only submissions about pedophiles are accepted”, does it? It is no contradiction to think this comment is fit for a submission to this site, but not buy into the “oh the doctor must be sexually interested in babies” reaction. Particularly given that the OP knows the doctor personally. Defending the doctor against such a charge isn’t tantamount to defending the comment.
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Melissa C Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 10:34 am (Quote)
I’d love to know what y’all pretend is adequate pain relief for a newborn’s circumcision. Even a dorsal nerve block is not adequate because the underside of the penis is innervated by the perineal nerve. I’d probably think the hospital was run by insane people if you told me they were putting newborns under general anesthesia for a cosmetic procedure.
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JessicaKC Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 2:26 pm (Quote)
Shame on you for being a judgemental shrew.
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Carrie Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 6:08 am (Quote)
Shame on the OP? Your comment is pathetic. Most women come here for support, not to be attacked. Your way of advocating is essentially shaming the parents and attacking them for their decision. Level-headed, informed advocacy would do more to serve your purposes than say “Shame on you.”
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Elizabeth Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 6:30 am (Quote)
Shame on any of you defending the mom and forgetting the feelings, emotions and physical of the baby. No baby deserves that crap, and yes the mother should be ashamed, but you even more.
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Carrie Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 6:58 am (Quote)
Would you say this same thing about a mom who chose an epidural, even though we know it affects the baby? Or how about a mom who chose to use formula, despite studies and evidence that it’s better for the baby? Not all moms are as “enlightened” as you, considering many pediatricians are clueless and OB’s mention little if anything about the risks, despite the fact that they often do the surgery. Your insensitive “advocacy” is more likely to drive them away than anything else.
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Toni Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 9:13 am (Quote)
I addressed this below, but will summarize: bfing/ffing impacts both mother and child. Childbirth impacts both mother and child. Sometimes (not super often, but sometimes, nonetheless) there are competing interests and while one choice would be better for one party, it is decidedly worse for the other. Since both infant nutrition and childbirth also impact the mother’s body she absolutely should have input as to what she wants to do. She should be mindful of the impact on her child and take that into account in her decision, but that doesn’t render her voiceless. With RIC, ONLY the child is impacted by the decision. It should not be up to the parents to decide at all. Now I am well aware that many (most) parents who opt for this do so out of ignorance, and the medical professionals are of little help in informing parents. I do not think the parents are “monsters” (as others have stated in these comments), but I do think they are ultimately responsible. While many do seem well-intentioned, the fact is if you have a baby and haven’t at least looked into this topic (and it doesn’t take much to find out that it’s not necessary and that it has serious risks) that is, IMO, rather irresponsible. That may “drive people away”, but hand-holding and placating doesn’t prompt action . That only excuses behavior and leaves the topic a sacred cow. That is unaccaptable.
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Ever stop and wonder why OB/GYNs are performing circumcisions on healthy, non-consenting MALE BABIES, when their field is in FEMALE genitalia?
OB/GYNs are reaping profit from a practice that is outside their field, and they get away with it because our f*ed up American medical system simply looks the other way. Imagine if a urologist ever performed labiaplasties on baby girls. “Because her father wanted it.” Absolutely a$$-backwards.
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Sigrid Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:40 am (Quote)
I agree with this… I think the pediatricians should do them (if they are done at all) because then they can see it as it heals… OBs perform them and then never see them after that, so how would the know if they did a poor job? Although, pediatricians are not “surgeons” and OBs are…
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Joseph4GI Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:44 am (Quote)
The other elephant in the room that American medical organizations ignore is the fact that surgery is performed on healthy, non-consenting individuals in the first place.
If there is no medical or clinical indication, why should a child endure a healing wound? Why should he lived with permanently altered organs as an adult “just because” their parents were given this “choice?”
Without medical or clinical indication, can doctors even be performing surgery on healthy, non-consenting individuals, much less be eliciting any kind of “decision” from parents?
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Nicci– you’re right, I’m a nurse that overheard the comment in the nursery immediately post-circumcision.
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Tee Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 2:53 pm (Quote)
I have no intention of joining the circumcision debate because they just get way too out of hand. However, let me say that I think it’s horrible that you’ve come under fire for submitting this entry. I’m sorry that you’re being judged for that.
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The Bottom Line
The foreskin is not a birth defect. Neither is it a congenital deformity or genital anomaly akin to a 6th finger or a cleft. Neither is it a medical condition like a ruptured appendix or diseased gall bladder. Neither is it a dead part of the body, like the umbilical cord, hair, or fingernails. The foreskin is normal, natural, healthy tissue with which all boys are born.
Unless there is a medical or clinical indication, the circumcision of healthy, non-consenting individuals is a deliberate wound; it is the destruction of normal, healthy tissue, the permanent disfigurement of normal, healthy organs, and by very definition, infant genital mutilation, and a violation of the most basic of human rights.
Doctors have absolutely no business performing surgery on healthy, non-consenting individuals, much less stoking a parent’s sense of entitlement.
Reaping profit from performing non-medical surgery on a healthy, non-consenting individual is the epitome of charlatanism.
Circumcising doctors, nurses, OB/GYNs etc. are all engaging in charlatanism.
Be warned.
Your day is coming.
Oh yes, it is coming.
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jaed Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 11:47 am (Quote)
I think that’s about enough with the threats here.
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Nicole Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 6:58 pm (Quote)
I don’t. What do YOU say to knife-wielding, baby-slicing people who CANNOT or WILL NOT see the inherent ethics violations in the procedure?
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jaed Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:54 pm (Quote)
About the same thing I say to woman-slashing OBs who CANNOT etc.
Which does not include “on the great day of the rope”-type threats such as the one above. These are inappropriate for this site (or for anywhere, really) and are an abuse of the hospitality of the site mods.
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Poor baby and wrong comment by the doc.
And to top it off I am one of those wives who is near willing to shoot the one who cut my husband….
I really wonder how a woman can want a man cut. Honestly intact sex is so much better, but hey I love my husband, but sure as hell would have wished they’d had left his willy in peace.
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Carrie Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 6:05 am (Quote)
Are you for real? If sex with an intact man is so much better, then what the hell are you doing with someone who’s been cut? Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound?
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Diana Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 6:30 am (Quote)
Carrie, you are the one who sounds ridiculous. Have you actually ever heard of love maybe?
That is what I have with my husband, the world does not only turn around sex. My husband is restoring and that does make quite a difference. Hell are you judgemental. Do you actually know the difference between intact and cut sex? I highly doubt that otherwise you would not have commented as ridiculous as you have. How incredibly insensitive you are. And yes, I am a real person and I do live in the end of the world where intact is the norm so I had my fair share of intact experiences as a teen – and no that is not frowned upon in my end of the world. However, when I met my husband there was so much between us that we ended up together. He was never happy with being cut, therefore he is restoring now. His exes actually also commented on the difference here and there. Anyway, have a nice day.
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Carrie Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 6:52 am (Quote)
I’ve actually heard many comments from women that say they can honestly tell no difference – and at least one woman who said this has been with both and is an anti-circumcision advocate. My point is that it’s different for everyone. There are men out there who wish they weren’t, men out there who don’t notice the difference, men out there who manage to have perfectly GREAT sex while being cut. Over-generalizations about the population as a whole is not a responsible way to advocate, by telling people that they will always, as a rule, have bad sex just because they’re cut (as someone further down said). Where is the objectivity?
I have not had “my fair share of experiences” and am quite happy that way, actually. But I am managing to have great sex despite it. 
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Heather P had this to say,
Nov 17, 2011 @ 6:08 am (Quote)
I don’t judge parents who have circumcision done.
My husband and his twin brother were premature. My mother in law was handed a consent form with no explanation. Her very sick boys were cut for no reason. My husband’s brother was dead a week later. I’m sure doing unnecessary surgery on a very sick infant didn’t help. My MIL says if she’d known she had a choice she wouldn’t have had it done.
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road2vba2c Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 3:38 pm (Quote)
GAH! So much for “informed consent”!
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I am definitely not a pedophile, and I think my son’s intact penis is the cutest, prettiest penis ever!
That being said, I would never be extremely harsh on someone for choosing circumcision. My husband and older son are circumsized. We live in a 90% circumcision area and didn’t realize that there there was anything wrong with it. I’m very sorry that it was done, but since my husband and I have a very fulfilling sex life, I’m not concerned that it will ruin my son’s future relationships. I just feel extremely bad that he had to go through unnecessary pain and that I supported a practice that to me is akin to cosmetic surgery on an infant. I’m very pleased and proud with every aspect of my female anatomy as is, and I’m ashamed that I treated my son’s penis as if it needed improvement. I just don’t think that there should be so much bashing of the already circumsized. I would never treat my husband as if he doesn’t have a fully functional penis. There are lots of men who are circumsized, and the majority are not upset by it. I just won’t have it done to future sons because there isn’t any need. If a son of mine chooses to have it done for himself at a later date, that’s his business. But it will hurt-just like it hurts when they’re babies. There is no proof that it hurts “more” as an adult. You just remember it better. Men who were circumsized as adults should really shudder at the idea that their baby might experience that same pain when they are too young to understand it. If I had a fear that a son of mine might have a problem, I would spend my time looking into non-surgical ways to help. I don’t want another son to have painful genital surgery.
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Brandy Paulson had this to say,
Nov 17, 2011 @ 7:27 am (Quote)
I think if your stupid enough to think torturing a baby is ok because an adult can whine about it more I’m appauled at you. I’m done pussy footing around with people who make pointless arguments about things that MIGHT happen! Watch the video of the newborn getting his stomach pumped for the circ or the countless babies SCREAMING for the doctor to stop. If you are ok with that then you are sick individual for thinking an adult has ti worse, when they understand AND get pain medication. Rare medical contidions are no reason to torture EVERY baby boy.
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Actually I thank my fiances mother for leaving his Penis alone! And if she didnt Id prolly ask her why she cut him and let her know she was wrong…..
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melissa Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 12:52 pm (Quote)
Yes, because she can do something about that now. Or because she’s currently pregnant and you want to educate her? Because seriously? You do that and you’ll be complaining about what a hateful old cow your MIL is and you have “no idea what I did to deserve her acting like that.”
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sick fuckers, anyone who would cut a child’s genitals without medical necessity is a monster. (or a complete tool)
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Kat Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 11:08 am (Quote)
Or someone who has been informed it IS medically advisable by people he/she trusted, only to find out later after it was too late that the medical necessity had been grossly over-exaggerated (and to whose benefit? Why the person collecting the fee for the procedure of course…) which was hardly their fault. Just saying.
Not everyone who consents to routine infant circumcision is a twisted monster. Most legitimately believe they are doing what’s best, even if that belief is based on lies told to them by the medical profession.
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Budgie Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 12:18 pm (Quote)
hear hear! I highly doubt that anyone who chooses to circ deliberatly does it to be cruel to their child.
besides, as far as I’m concerned, circumcision is just the latest hot topic to be up in arms about. Get over it and make your own choices and stop judging others 
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Toni Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 12:24 pm (Quote)
Precisely! I think about my grandmothers’ generation… most dads were in the waiting room, most mothers were under “twilight sleep”, the babies got whisked away to the nursery and were quite often cut without anyones knowledge or consent before the mother even came out of her haze (consent laws were different then). Anyone who might have questioned it was fed a line about it being “necessary” or about how many problems intact men were prone to have. You can’t blame mothers or fathers who didn’t even have a choice. Fast forward to my mother’s generation and by then in the US circ was nearly universal (over 90%). Our mothers (most of them anyway) had never even seen an intact penis. They had to sign the forms, but most didn’t need much convincing – the tired, weak, ‘he should look like his daddy’ or ‘it’s easier to clean’ lines worked by then – our mothers really didn’t know any better and, without access to the info we have today (being that this is the Information Age, afterall) their only source of info would be their doctors (who were biased – they got to collect the fee and had psychological reasons to believe that it was beneficial – otherwise they’d have to acknowledge that they’d needlessly harmed thousands of babies… it’s very akin to episiotomies in that regard – look how hard that has been for the medical community to give up).
We have no excuses anymore. The info is there. Gone are the ‘doctor knows best, asking for a second opinion is rude/disrespectful, just let us medical pros take care of every wittle thing dearie’ days. I don’t fault past generations who had less info at their fingertips for relying on the opinions of the one or two medical “professionals” they dealt with for doing it. Any child born in the last ten or fifteen years? Those parents have no excuse and, while maybe they aren’t monsters, they are irresponsible, to say the least.
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Tora Spigner Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 2:44 pm (Quote)
Thank you for your succint and correct analysis of current day circumcision.
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David Llewellyn had this to say,
Nov 17, 2011 @ 12:49 pm (Quote)
Some years ago I had clients whose son was circumcised against their wishes. In that case the doctor said of the newly circumcised penis: “It looks like a little tea rose!” So do I believe this doc said it? Of course. Why? Good question!
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SERIOUSLY? “Willing to shoot”? Are you that angry at your in-laws, too, because they’re the ones who consented to it??
I’m anti-circumcision. My son is not circumcised. My husband is, and he was adamantly PRO-circumcising our kids. We ended up in counseling when I was pregnant with #1 over it. Counseling solved nothing. Finally I found something that was equally important to him, so we agreed to a compromise – we’d raise our children pro-life (I’m pro-choice) and anti-circumcision. I figure I can be morally and ethically comfortable with a stance of “we don’t hurt babies in this family,” and I can leave the politics aside with the abortion thing. (Way to bring in another hot topic, right?)
I’m not angry at my in-laws, though. I feel a little sorry for the baby-husband who had to go through being circumcised, but there’s a lot of other stuff that happened in his childhood (alcoholic grandparent, alcoholic parent, tragic deaths of 3 close family members, etc.) that I wish I could go back and change for him.
But to be “willing to shoot” a doctor who performed what EVERYONE in the 60s and 70s regarded as a “simple, routine procedure” that “everyone” got?
I just think you’ve spent way too much emotional energy on something that happened 20 or 30 years ago, if you’re seriously “livid” and “ready to shoot” anyone over it. If it was so important to you, why didn’t you marry an uncircumcised man? I can’t imagine having any kind of healthy relationship with my in-laws if I saw them as baby maiming monsters who were suitable for shooting.
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Lauren Swanson had this to say,
Nov 17, 2011 @ 2:15 pm (Quote)
Hmmm. What if it were a baby girl instead?
“Her future husband will thank me. What a beautiful little rose bud!” – OB after circumcising a newborn girl.
I long for the day that baby boys are legally protected from this mutilation. They matter too.
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I’ve been sitting here thinking about how badly this whole thing annoys me. This is what I have come up with-
A lot of you people have such awesome lives that you just HAVE to find something to be angry about. You need something that makes you feel like you are better and smarter than others. Then you attack people that do no beleive what you beleive. Stop it and go volunteer somewhere.
I talked to lots of men and did lots of research before decideing to circ my son. My husband is very happily circ’d, and both his family and my family have a history of foreskin complications. I never found someone other than on the internet that was unhappy about being circ’d, but I did find men that wish they were and couldn’t afford the operation or were scared to do it. There is conflicting research, not concrete proof of the benifits of either leaving the foreskin or removing it, IN MY OPINION. You are entitled to yours, but not to atack me for mine.
We as parents make a lot of choices for our kids.
If you beleive circ’ing is wrong, this is NOT the way to go about making your point. If you feel the need express your opinion, quit with this anger and horrible attitude! It is not justified and serves only to inflame and not to educate.It helps no one.
Stop comparing female and male circ! In female circere are several different classifications. Most are to destroy sexual pleasure and reduce libido to ensure a woman stays a virgin and does not stray from her husband. They fuse the tissues together in some cases only leaving a small passage for urine and blood, and then cut her back open for sex or childbirth. This is not the point of male circ and comparing the two makes female circ seem much less severe than it is. They are VERY different things!
I think this comment by the OP is very wrong. I did not circ my son because I was worried about how he would ‘look’. I did it because I did not want him to go through what my uncles did as adults, and because somany men told me how happy they are that they have it done.
You do not have to agree with me! But DO NOT ATTACK ME! You have no right!!
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Toni Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:06 pm (Quote)
“A lot of you people have such awesome lives that you just HAVE to find something to be angry about…”
Yes. We are blessed to live in a time and place where we have the time and resources to help defend those who are unable to defend themselves. And yes, it does make many people angry to see innocent, helpless children be unnecessarily altered in a very personal, private way. I’m not sure why it is hard for you to understand the concept of bodily integrity and consent.
“My husband is very happily circ’d, and both his family and my family have a history of foreskin complications.”
What sort of complications? In what area of the country do you live? In what decade did they experience their complications? Were other methods of resolving their problems attempted before resorting to amputative surgery? I know many parents are still advised to retract their infant son’s foreskin at each diaper change – just one example of ignorance that will end up *causing* the “need” for future circ. There are lots of “foreskin problems” that can be resolved without surgery…
“There is conflicting research, not concrete proof of the benifits of either leaving the foreskin or removing it, IN MY OPINION. ”
There are, however, proven risks associated with circ. That is fact. Not opinion. So while any benefits of circ are purely speculative, the risks are very real. Which is why RIC is not recommended.
“We as parents make a lot of choices for our kids.”
Yes we do. But what other elective cosmetic procedure are we allowed to perform on an otherwise normal healthy infant? We are entrusted with our children to act as their agents. We do not own them.
“In female circere are several different classifications. Most are to destroy sexual pleasure and reduce libido to ensure a woman stays a virgin and does not stray from her husband. ”
Did you know that modern circ, as practiced in the US, was initially developed as a means of preventing or punishing boys for masturbating. The whole point was to destroy sexual pleasure and ensure that the boy maintains proper Victorian virture. Girls were often circumcised (right here in the US) for the same reasons. Before long circumcision was reported to cure or prevent a multitude of diseases – from convulsions and paralysis, to tuberculosis, and most recently HIV/AIDS. Circ has been aptly coined as “a solution in search of a problem”. Now, most comparing male circ to female circ do limit it to removal of the prepuce. The prepuce in a male is the foreskin, in the female it is the clitoral hood. Removal of the clitoral hood will not effect a woman’s basic bodily function any more than removal of the foreskin will effect a man. But even a ceremonial nick is a federal crime in the US. If the prepuce belongs to a girl, that is.
Now I understand why so many are put off by comparing male to female circ. It does make you uncomfortable (as I would hope any discussion of altering a defenseless child’s genitals without any reason would make you uncomfortable). So I like to compare it to episiotomy. Sometimes episiotomy is necessary (rarely, but probably more often than circ is necessary). If a woman having a baby requests an episiotomy, that is her right (as an adult), however, barring a medical emergency, if she does not wish to be cut, she should not be cut. If she is cut without her consent that is battery, pure and simple. The same goes for circ – if an adult man wants to be cut, that is his right. But, barring a medical emergency, if consent is not obtained *from the peron to whom the body part in question belongs* then it is battery, pure and simple. Parents should not be allowed to consent to unnecessary medical procedures for their children. In fact, I can’t think of any unnecessary medical procedure that parents *are* able to consent to for their normal, healthy infants, other than RIC. I wouldn’t want my genitals cut without my knowledge or consent, would you?
“You do not have to agree with me! But DO NOT ATTACK ME! You have no right!!”
I do hope you don’t see “attacking” in my response to you. There is passion. There is incredulty that this practice is allowed to continue in the 21st century. There is certainly anger that babies are still being altered in such a personal, private, *permanent* way, with no medical need, for reasons that amount to ignorance. I can understand that you have several Vivid Instances in your life and I can see how that must be hard to overcome, but statistically there is about a 1% chance that your son would ahve had any problems with his foreskin that would require circumcision to resolve.
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Lisa Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 6:57 am (Quote)
“Now, most comparing male circ to female circ do limit it to removal of the prepuce. The prepuce in a male is the foreskin, in the female it is the clitoral hood.”
Actually, the cells that develop into the tip of the penis are the same cells that in a female baby, develop into the clitoris itself.
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Angelica Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:57 pm (Quote)
Wrong. Female circumcision ranges anywhere from removing just the clitoral hood and labia minora, to full blown “scraped clean” and sewed shut. If it’s the former, that’s no different than male circumcision. As americans, we were in a damned uproar that the AAP *might* make a cutural allowance for a ritual “nick” in a baby girl’s clitoris to spare her from being smuggled back to Africa to have a scrape and shut at puberty. We were OUTRAGED that a medical organization would say it might be okay to take a knife to a girl’s genitals, even if it were less invasive than male RIC. How the hell do you line that up in your mind?
Cutting up a boy’s genitals is just as wrong as cutting on a girl. It should be a CHOICE for when they get older. Think whatever you want to help you sleep at night, compartmentalize your arguments for however long you need to so you can think that it’s perfectly okay, but either way, you cut your son with no valid medical evidence to support you, just anecdotes.
Everyone has a choice, we can all choose to do whatever we want to do, but there’s always right and wrong. And if it’s gray, there’s always “more right” than the other option. Abortion is a choice, circumcising babies is a choice, jumping off a cliff is a choice. You’re certainly entitled to choose to do any of those things. It doesn’t necessarily make it the right thing to do, just cause it’s an option.
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Jessicakc Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 8:54 pm (Quote)
Lol i am not going to keep arguing with you irrational people. I’d like you to site yoursources though because i call shenanigans. And Angelica, I said th ere were varying levels of female circ, so please read before responding. Are you really comparing abortion and circ? That’s exactly what I am talking about. You are inflaming instead of educating and it helps no one. If circ was so damaging ( and I am not trying to discount men who have been seriously damaged by it, if that is you then I am so sorry) then more men would have issues with it and no men iknow do! They are all very adamant about it being a good thing, all of the nurses I know that work with pediatrics see tons of infections in uncirc kids and that made them make the decision to have their sons circ. I don’t make these things up! Since I don’t have a penis I will go with what all these men are saying to me and I will not apologize. I did the right thing for my child. You can stay up on your self righteous high horses all you’d like!
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Sara Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 12:34 am (Quote)
Go to a country where FGM is the norm and you will have all the women telling you what a great thing it is and that it’s of course very necessary because uncirc’ed girls are dirty and get tons of infections. It goes both ways.
Oh, also? I live in a country where circ is only done for medical reasons, and I know two boys who had to have it done. Two. No one in my family or immediate circle of friends ever had any issues. I wonder if it’s because over here, we’re actually taught how to take care of an intact penis and in the US, most people (including medical personnel) have no clue how to do it?
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Toni Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 5:15 am (Quote)
“I’d like you to site yoursources though because i call shenanigans.”
What specifically do you want citation for? I’d be happy to oblige.
“If circ was so damaging ( and I am not trying to discount men who have been seriously damaged by it, if that is you then I am so sorry) then more men would have issues with it and no men iknow do! They are all very adamant about it being a good thing…”
Hmmm. I wonder why a man might be reluctant to say that there is anything “wrong” with his penis, publicly… Gee, it makes ya’ wonder 
Maybe that’s why it mostly happens under the cloak of anonymity of the internet. I know a number of men who have problems like bowed penis and painful erections who have no idea that their issues were caused by being circumcised… you do realize that this issue is a sacred cow and it’s not as though there are PSA’s informing men that, hey, the problem you have might be a direct result of you having been cut. Most men never connect the dots
“…all of the nurses I know that work with pediatrics see tons of infections in uncirc kids and that made them make the decision to have their sons circ.”
And you’re calling “shenanigans” and asking for citations? ROFL. Of course, how many of your colleagues are advising parents to retract, or are forcibly retracting during examinations? Then they are *causing* the “tons of infections”.
“I don’t make these things up! ”
Yes. Yes you do.
“Since I don’t have a penis I will go with what all these men are saying to me and I will not apologize.”
You DO have a prepuce (unless you were circumcised?). “All th(ose) men” don’t. You are actually in a better position to know what has been lost than someone who was cut before he can remember having a prepuce.
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Jessicakc Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 9:19 pm (Quote)
In the late 19th century circumcision became routine in the United States of America and elsewhere as a result of pronouncements in publications by various physicians, most notably Peter Remondino [Remondino, 1891; Gollaher, 1994; Alanis & Lucidi, 2004]. He recognized the various health benefits at the time, although he overemphasized the clinical significance of the foreskin in masturbation, a practice thought at the time to have adverse consequences [Schoen, 2007d]. Most other authorities at the time did not agree with him on this point, as is discussed in the next paragraph. The procedure rapidly gained popularity and became routine.
Some of the purported benefits have stood the test of time, namely that circumcision prevents penile cancer, syphilis, balanoposthitis and phimosis. Although it is often claimed (by anti-circumcision activists) that circumcision was popular in the Victorian era as a cure for masturbation, the truth is quite different. This hypothesis appeared in an 1891 commentary [Hutchinson, 1891] by an author who, decades earlier, was the first to observe that circumcision protects against syphilis [Hutchinson, 1855]. But the idea that circumcision prevented masturbation had no common currency in Victorian times. For example, the purported ‘evil’ of masturbation occupies much of the 1913 book ‘Youth and Sex’, yet circumcision is not mentioned [Scharlieb & Silby, 1913]. A well-known book on circumcision by Felix Bryke completely rubbishes the idea [Bryk, 1934] and Whitla’s ‘Dictionary of Treatment’ does not list ‘circumcision’, whereas, under ‘masturbation, only suggests performing circumcision if irritation from a tight prepuce is responsible [Whitla, 1912].
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Carrie Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 6:03 am (Quote)
There are lots of different opinions represented here, and as parents we will probably disagree on a lot of things throughout the course of our parenting career. But I definitely agree – foaming-at-the-mouth advocacy, vile verbal attacks on a person’s parenting skills and heated drama is NOT going to change people’s minds or win them over. Why can’t people understand this? It’s the same with breast vs. formula, natural vs. medicated birth – no different, really. I can’t stand the personal attacks – or the people that think it’s perfectly okay to say hateful things about people. Grow up already!
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Toni Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 6:20 am (Quote)
Actually this is one of the more tame conversations about circ I’ve witnessed, lol. I do think the pro-circ side gets overly defensive (mostly because they don’t have a side, but I suppose that’s JMO). At any rate this is VERY different than bfing vs ffing or natural vs medical birth – in those instances, while one option does tend to be favored by the science, the fact is, there are TWO people affected by those decisions: the mother and the child. Both people’s needs need to be taken into account. When it comes to RIC only ONE person is affected: the child. I can much more easily understand a mother’s choice to ff or have an epidural than I can understand her choice to circ somebody else’s genitals. Why is it any of her business in the first place? She shouldn’t have the option. It’s not her body. With bfing, it DOES involve her body. With NCB, it DOES involve her body, so yes, in those cases her input matters. His body, his choice.
You say that impassioned debate, or “drama” as you call it, won’t win people over or change their minds. I respectfully disagree. What won’t change anyone’s mind is your brand of placating, “whatever you choose is fine dear”, pat-on-the-head “support”. This topic is a sacred cow for most people. That needs to end or else this practice will never stop. Your “whatever you do is fine dear” approach won’t even get people thinking, much less change anyone’s mind.
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Mama Wrench had this to say,
Nov 17, 2011 @ 3:34 pm (Quote)
The point in comparing male and female circumcision is not what is lost. It’s a comparison of kind, not degree. In MANY forms of female circumcision, the woman only loses some sexual stimulation, but not all. Hey, a lot like male circumcision. In both cases sexual organs are surgically altered for cultural reasons. So yes, they are comparable.
Circumcision can also be compared to c-section. Sometimes it’s beneficial and results in a positive outcome. But when it’s done for NON-MEDICAL reasons, the risks almost always outweigh the potential benefit. As a ROUTINE procedure, you would have to circumcise 10,000 boys to reap the benefits of preventing just one complication from remaining intact — and of those 10,000, 10 will have complications from the procedure itself. (World Health Organization)
The distinction is whether a procedure is done as a curative MEDICAL procedure, or as a routine COSMETIC procedure. No one here is arguing against medical treatment for a legitimate condition. We’re arguing against the routine cosmetic modification of patients who cannot consent.
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Such a revolting comment for so many reasons (thank God this was not said in front of the mother! I was hoping with all my might that this was sent in by a nurse!).
I’m always astounded by the number of women (not necessarily here, but in real life & on other forums) who will in one conversation complain about the lack of sensitivity their (circumsised) husband has & how it causes a great many sexual & intimacy (& even conception!) problems in their marriage & then in another conversation shortly after will state that they want their sons circumsised because their “husband was circumsised & he turned out fine”. Did these women never play connect the dots as children or something?
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Mama Wrench Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:11 pm (Quote)
I find it disturbing how many women want to circumcise their sons because “it looks so much better that way” or “I don’t find uncut penises attractive.” If you want your son’s penis to be sexually attractive to you (note the difference between BEING ATTRACTED and FINDING ATTRACTIVENESS — I find many women attractive but I’m not attracted to them, thus the difference) you REALLY need to reexamine your motives…
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As soon as my son can say “Mom, I think I’d like to be circumcised” then it can be considered. Well, he could tell his dad instead, lol.
When I was in the hospital with him, everyone kept asking me if he was being circumcised. In the delivery room, I told them to ask me later. When they asked me after, I leaned over and asked him if he wanted to be circumcised. No answer. I told them to ask him later, since it was his penis and not mine. 
Fortunately, the nurse I had got it right away.
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Mama Wrench had this to say,
Nov 18, 2011 @ 3:13 am (Quote)
So, why is it okay to question the need for c-section due to “complications,” but not okay to question complications to justify circ? An EMT tried to tel me my son had phimosis, at 1 year-old, and top retract his foreskin at EVERY iaper c hange — which can CAUSE phimosis I’m adults. So if your husband’s entire family is having the same problems, maybe they were all trying the same bad cure. Just a thought.
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Budgie had this to say,
Nov 18, 2011 @ 5:05 am (Quote)
Wow you guys are the most vicious judgmental group of people I’ve ever had the misfortune to stumble upon. I hope MOSW doesn’t post any of my recent submissions for fear of being attacked and judged like you guys are doing here and have done on past submissions.
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Lindsay Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 11:08 am (Quote)
I agree with you. This “debate” (read: trashing each other to the point of threats) is ridiculous. I am against circumcision, yet I agreed to my son getting one. Why? Because he had a physical deformity that made it impossible for him to urinate through his foreskin. If I hadn’t agreed to the circumcision, he still would have had to have surgery. In that instance, Dad wanted baby to look like him, since we were already having to agree to surgery, and the chance of tissue damage was less severe. All of these women are arguing about how they will NEVER let their son be cut, but in an instance like mine, don’t you think its cruel not to?
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“Beautiful little rose bud” is an offensive metaphor to use regarding a freshly circumcised penis.
“His future wife will thank me.” The obgyn is projecting his personal and male preference into the minds of the next generation of young women. Circumcision is a fashion statement, and one thing is certain: fashion evolves over time. It is arrogant and presumptuous of a doctor to claim to know the sexual preferences of the next generation of young adult women. And it is wrong of doctors to alter the penis for reasons that are primarily cosmetic. European women have made it clear that they find American circumcision bizarre.
The deep problem that underlies this thread is that the typical American adult has never seen a natural penis in the flesh. Until 10-15 years ago, the typical USA medical school text or sex ed printed material did not depict an intact penis. Hence the sexual part of the minds of most Americans expect the penis to be bald, 24/7. Many health care givers let the fact that they are products of this culture interfere with their professionalism.
Early in her time with me, my wife pulled my foreskin forward with her fingers, and formed something that very much looked like a rose. She then looked at me with a knowing little smile. The doctor’s metaphor applies to the natural penis, not the cut one.
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Add Your Comment.
OP I really hope you wanted your son circumcised, because if not, I would have come of that bed and decked him for making a comment like that.
If you did want it, I think your doctor is a weirdo.
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