Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Aug
14
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“…There’s No Benefit To Nursing…”
“I stopped nursing all my kids at 12 months. I just can’t
understand why anyone would want to breastfeed past that point. I mean, at a year old, a baby can safely drink cow’s milk, and there’s no benefit to nursing after that.” – NICU nurse to her NICU colleague, when the colleague stated she was still nursing at 15 months.
There are 50 comments to this post.
I guess that nurse better go tell the WHO they have it all wrong then since they say “it continues to provide up to half or more of a child’s nutritional needs during the second half of the first year, and up to one-third during the second year of life.”
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I will *never* understand how or why the concept that the breast milk of an entirely different species is in some way more beneficial then species specific milk.
That’s one of the biggest face palm moments for me.
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Jane Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 4:04 pm (Quote)
Win.
But she’s not arguing that cow’s milk is beneficial either. She’s arguing that there’s no reason to make the extra effort to breastfeed when you can put liquid in a cup and walk away. Sounds to me like “I couldn’t be bothered to keep doing that” rather than “Cow’s milk is better for them.”
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first time mommy had this to say,
Aug 14, 2011 @ 3:14 pm (Quote)
Oh really? Wanna re-read the recommendations of the WHO? The WHO, I believe, MINIMUM of 2 years breastfeeding and then WHENEVER Mom/baby wish to stop. I also believe the WHO says no cow’s milk before 2 years? That’s what my mom told me and that’s when she introduced it to myself and my brothers. (we all still nursed tho til we were about 3 yrs old) Mama’s milk is still #1 though and made SPECIFICALLY for baby and ADAPTS to baby’s needs as baby grows. Does cow’s milk do that for a HUMAN baby? Nope. Cow’s milk is made for a baby CALF.
And who cares if the nurse is still nursing?! It’s HER boobs, HER baby. Not anyone else’s. So it shouldn’t affect anyone else. ::sigh::
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch had this to say,
Aug 14, 2011 @ 3:20 pm (Quote)
And people wonder why breastfeeding a baby in the NICU, or post-NICU, is harder than it might otherwise be. It’s not just that often the preemies have to learn how to suckle after having been gavage fed or otherwise assisted; it’s also that the nurses often take a cavalier attitude to the desirability of breastfeeding. While this particular nurse is talking about so-called “extended” nursing (extended, my arse; the WHO recommends at least two years, and most children if allowed to self-wean do so between the ages of two and four, which, not coincidentally, coincides with the leveling off of the incredibly rapid brain development that occurs in the zero-to-three period) it illustrates a greater attitude that I ran up against when my second daughter was in the NICU: the view that nursing is optional, awkward, “just another way to feed the baby,” and a little formula won’t hurt and is so much easier to control so why not just do things the “easy” way?
Sounds remarkably like some medical arguments regarding elective c-section, come to think of it.
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This nurse just wants her own pro-con analysis validated by her co-worker. If she felt when balancing BFing a her job that the scales tipped at 12 month then she wants the other nurse to agree with her and do things exactly the same as she did so she can feel good about her decision. This is not based on scienfici fact but the avoidance of guilt.
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Heather Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 6:05 pm (Quote)
Yup, it’s clearly an automatic “this is why I did it differently,” reaction. It would have been fine if she’d said, “We went 12 months!” and smiled. But she had to go into justification, showing that she either expects to be judged or isn’t firm on her decision.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 8:27 pm (Quote)
Well, gee, I know how to handle those kinds of attempts to get approval/validation. *evil smirk*
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Keyword, “safely” drink cows milk. Yes, they can! Doesn’t mean the human variety should be shunned just because a “safe” alternative exists.
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Interestingly, milk becomes more calorie-and-nutrient dense *after* the first 12 months. If you want to wean at 12 months, that’s your business, but don’t imply that there’s no benefit to anyone else continuing to do so, because the WHO disagrees mightily.
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This is my submission. After she said this to me, I was in such shock that I just stared at her with my mouth open for a few minutes, not knowing what to say. This was my first time ever working with this nurse (I was floating to the NICU from a regular newborn nursery). I thought: “Oh my gosh, if she is this ignorant of the research and current recommendations regarding “extended” breastfeeding benefits, then what else is she ignorant about???” I couldn’t believe it… As a nurse, I make it a priority to stay current in the scientific literature to implement evidence-based practice, but am sad to report that many of my co-workers do not do the same. 
About 10 months after this conversation, I was the nursery nurse attending the birth of her third baby. After my initial nurse care (vit k, erythromycin, footprints, id bands, etc), I asked her if she wanted me to place the baby skin to skin on her chest so she could start breastfeeding. She made a face at me and said “ew, no, wrap her up. I’ll nurse her later, I have visitors coming.” This really spoke volumes to me about her attitudes regarding birth, babies, and breastfeeding. Not everyone loves birth as much as I (we) do, I guess!
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Krista Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 7:23 pm (Quote)
How sad! The lack of wanting skin-to-skin with her daughter worries me as well. I wonder if she dismisses the benefits of kangaroo care with NICU infants.
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first time mommy Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 7:34 pm (Quote)
http://www.drmomma.org/2009/08/mothers-last-skin-to-skin-goodbye-saves.html – show that disbelieving nurse THAT! =) Skin to skin is AMAZING!
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 8:28 pm (Quote)
I feel really sorry for her offspring.
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xanthina Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 9:57 pm (Quote)
I just wanted to say.. when I first read this I thought it was a positive, I had to read it again to see the negative. I was so giddy about a NICU Nurse who was pro BreastFeeding & ‘extended’ BreastFeeding!
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juliewashere88 Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 7:25 am (Quote)
In text, you miss tone. Maybe when she was talking about when she stopped breast-feeding she came off as judgmental. To me though, without being there, it just looks like a conversation.
There’s nothing wrong with stopping breastfeeding when no longer nutritionally vital (or even simply choosing not to breastfeed at all,) and there’s nothing wrong with not wanting a freshly born, fluid-covered baby on your chest.
You don’t want to be judged for your decisions regarding pregnancy and parenting, so why be so ready to judge someone else for not doing things your way? It’s HER birth and HER child.
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Sigrid Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 7:52 am (Quote)
You’re absolutely right, it is HER birth and HER child. That’s why I never assume, at a birth, that a mom will want to hold skin to skin and breastfeed immediately. I always ask… every mom is comfortable with different things… I was just surprised that a nurse in a maternity department at a busy urban hospital, that is supposed to be trying for “baby friendly” status, was so against early skin to skin contact (which is proven beneficial and safe for mom and baby in multiple journal articles) and also very against extended breastfeeding.
When she told me “I just can’t understand why anyone would want to nurse past 12 months” it was in response to my mentioning that I was still nursing my 15 month old even though I was 8 weeks pregnant with my second. She literally turned her nose up at me and looked at me like what I was doing (nursing a toddler) was disgusting to her. Keep in mind that this was the first time I had ever met this nurse and had never worked with her before. Talk about feeling judged!!!
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juliewashere88 Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 8:07 am (Quote)
Like I said, some things don’t come across in text. She shouldn’t have judged you. 15 months isn’t that late. (I have to admit that stories about women breastfeeding at 8 years squick me out.)
It just seemed like there was no other reason to bring up the no skin contact thing immediately after birth other than to further color her character as something the board wouldn’t like.
It sort of reminds me of something else I saw on this site way back, about a nurse (or OB) I don’t remember which, who talked about scheduling HER OWN cesarean in advance and was ceased upon for it. It just makes me sad.
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Melissa Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 8:14 am (Quote)
Julie-
We get that this mom didn’t want skin-to-skin, etc. And it wouldn’t help her for people to force her to do it. But that doesn’t make the facts neutral (Sigrid points out that research is quite clear on benefits for this biological norm) and her attitude: “Eeew! Newborns are so squicky!” is not expected or desirable in a nurse responsible for encouraging new moms to choose the (objectively) healthiest and best options for their newborns. Now individual people have the right to choose something that isn’t the accepted best practice…OF COURSE! Each of us is only responsible for ourselves. And the normative “best” may not be best for the individual, or the individual may choose something else for any number of reasons, and no one should be strong armed into doing things “the only one right way”…who does that help? But in all of that respecting differences of opinions and differences in situations and personal sovereignty…the facts are still the facts. And it’s disquieting to see a supposed authority on those facts feel and choose so differently. It’s hard to imagine how she could help new moms in that arena.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 8:26 am (Quote)
The fact that she’s a nurse shouldn’t matter. There’s no reason someone’s choices as a mom should be invalidated on the basis of her chosen profession. I think you’re holding her to an unfair and unreasonable standard on the basis of her work. No matter what her job, she’s still an individual person and she’s still entitled to her opinions and decisions as a mother.
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Melissa Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 9:30 am (Quote)
The fact that she’s a nurse does matter.
The troubling thing isn’t specifically her own choice, but her reaction. It’s not as if she said, “oh, I know that’s usually a good idea, but I just can’t (for whatever reason) right now.” Instead of revealing a nurse who has a clear understanding of best practices making a different decision for herself and her baby in a personal and individual situation, her reaction betrays at best ignorance (that skin to skin benefits babies) with a side of prejudice (ew! Babies are nursing are icky and best attended to reluctantly and in private.) She’s welcome to make her own decisions, but her attitudes betray a lack of understanding, knowledge, and a troubling ambivalence towards babies and nursing…troubling not because she’s just anybody but a NICU NURSE. We’d question how well anyone could do their job if they were put off by the very population they serve.
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Jane Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 9:45 am (Quote)
It only matters inasmuch as she might pressure parents whose babies are in her care, or provide inadequate care to those babies, or if she might not outline all the options to the NICU parents.
Her parenting decisions are her own, absolutely. The only reason her status as a nurse matters is whether she’s enough of a professional to set aside her own opinions and provide proper care in the NICU. The OP’s story doesn’t give enough information about her as a professional to say whether that’s the case or not.
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Details Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 10:28 am (Quote)
You are missing the main point. The main point is that this NICU nurse started it by expressing her own opinions in a very unprofessional manner to a co-worker. She never should have opened her mouth about still nursing a 15 month old to a co-worker. Imagine what she says to NICU parents and then you can followed it up with her own reaction to her own child. Nurse “Babies ar Icky” shouldn’t be working with babies! end of story. If you want to think I am terrible and judgemental go ahead. that is my judgement. This nurse should not even being working with babies let alone Premature Infants. You don’t like my opinion – I don’t care! She started it. She should learn to keep her mouth shut!
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SculptorAlison Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 7:32 pm (Quote)
Sometimes people *do* need to be judged by their actions.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
August 16th, 2011 at 5:30 am (Quote)
Are her opinions affecting the level of care she provides patients? The OP, to my knowledge, hasn’t said so. It’s just an assumption the board has made. She doesn’t parent YOUR way, so she must not be capable of letting other women birth their way. If you can’t see the irony in the outrage, I really don’t know what to say to you.
Yes, the nurse DID have a right to discuss her decisions about breastfeeding, just as mush as the OP did. She shouldn’t have had a condescending attitude about it, if indeed she did. It’s just as wrong to judge someone for breastfeeding at 15months as it is to judge someone for stopping at 12, or for not wanting a fresh newborn on their chest.
Furthermore, she never said that she thought babies were gross. You made that up. Not that thinking babies are gross necessarily makes one a bad nurse or mother anyway, the point is, she didn’t say that. She said “Ew” to putting the still covered in fluid newborn to her chest. I can’t say I blame her, I wouldn’t want that either.
You can talk about benefits of immediate skin-to-skin all you want. I’m not going to argue with that. But you might want to consider that babies that don’t do that aren’t all dropping dead. Is her baby healthy? If so, what’s the problem?
I find the idea of myself being pregnant creepy, and actually giving birth absolutely horrifying. But in the laughably unlikely scenario that I do become pregnancy, and even less likely scenario that I choose to keep it, I’d schedule my cesarean in advance, I wouldn’t put the newborn on my bare chest, and I wouldn’t breastfeed at all – and yes, those WOULD be the best decisions for me. You can judge me for all of that if you want, but my decisions are my own and I know what’s best for myself and Imagi-Gary. But none of my hypothetical decisions would affect my support of women’s rights to choose differently, to have natural births, to breastfeed, etc.
Sometimes, this board really disappoints me. When I first started coming here, I felt empowered. I raged and laughed with the rest of you. How dare OBs bully women, judge women, and try to manipulate women into birthing the OB’s way. But sadly, I’m seeing that some of you, not all of you, are no different than those OBs. Mothers must do things either the OBs’ way or your way – god forbid the mother do anything her own way.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
August 16th, 2011 at 5:48 am (Quote)
Arg. Sorry for typos. It’s early. I wish there was an edit feature.
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Charity had this to say,
Aug 14, 2011 @ 7:43 pm (Quote)
Tell my almond milk drinking 2 year old that cows milk is “safe.” She’ll probably puke all over you.
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first time mommy Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 7:50 pm (Quote)
OT – lol but I’m wondering how you intro’d almond milk? I was thinking about that, but I’m worried b/c nuts are allergenic? Or am I wrong?
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Kat Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 5:45 am (Quote)
I can’t speak for Charity, but usually among us allergy-moms introduction of new foods is conducted very carefully, one thing at a time, and with close observation for any sign of intolerance. Whether it’s a rash, general discomfort, constipation/loose stool, sudden hyperactivity, etc.
Nuts ARE a common allergy trigger, and should be introduced with caution, but age 2 is a good point for most people to start trying.
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I don’t post on here much because this site makes me crazy but I feel like I have to respond to this one. I’ve been a NICU for 12 years – our jobs is to find out what moms want, educate if needed, make sure they have all the options and then advocate for what they want. Your judgment of your fellow co-worker (for a day) and your patient is just as bad as anything else on this site.
Parents and patients will come in all shapes and sizes and make a lot of decisions in their lives that you don’t agree with. I hope you keep this sanctimonious attitude to yourself as you pursue your career.
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Melissa Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 8:23 am (Quote)
So your job isn’t to give parents recommendations about best practices? Suggestions for ways they can help their children the most?
I’m so glad that you feel so strongly about respecting parents decisions. That’s wonderful, and I don’t want this criticism to undermine that in any way.
But the fact is, you are a medical expert in a medical facility. That facility has “rules.” Babies have needs. There is good research that points to specific best practices for NICU and other babies. Isn’t it also a major part of your job to provide good information? All choices aren’t inherently equal. Please realize that it is possible to know that certain things are better than others for newborns and yet be respectful of individuals as they choose what seems best for them in their own situation.
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sigrid Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 10:21 am (Quote)
Hahahahaha!!! Oh my goodness. Believe me, I’ve worked with many people who have different attitudes than my own. Yes, I keep my “sanctimonious attitude” to myself. I did not respond to this nurse when she totally looked down on me for nursing my 15 month old (15 months, seriously? I mean, for crying out loud, my son wasn’t even two years old yet which is the MINIMUM nursing length recommended by WHO). I just nodded my head and then went back to work. I bit my tongue, then. The only reason I submitted that quote to this site was because I had to tell someone how I felt, and I did not want to tell anyone at work to tarnish this nurse’s reputation (she is a perfectly adequate NICU nurse and I have no complaints regarding her work performance) or to say anything to this relative stranger that I had only known for a few short hours. That did not mean that she felt the same way– she went on to judge many of my parenting choices… For instance, she insisted that I HAD TO have my son taken in for a speech therapy consultation because I mentioned he had a tongue tie. She told me that I would be a neglectful parent if I didn’t have it looked at. Little did she know that I had already had him seen by an ENT twice. She was so quick to judge that it really irked me.
I’m sorry that you think I’m a snooty judgmental person… if you knew me personally, you would know that that is the complete opposite of who I am. I take great delight in helping moms have FANTASTIC experiences after the births of their babies. I LOVE my job. And you better believe me that I try to implement the most mother-baby friendly care possible with my patients. And, yes, that includes early skin-to-skin contact and early breastfeeding. It’s not about judging another mom’s parenting choices, it’s about doing what’s best for my patients– the babies. If you need links to journal articles detailing the vast and lasting benefits of early skin to skin care, then I’d be happy to share.
By the way… it’s amazing how quick you are to judge me. I hope you keep your sanctimonious attitude in check with your co-workers and patients as well.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
August 16th, 2011 at 5:33 am (Quote)
Oh my god Kaytee, comments like yours restore my faith in this board just a little bit. Thank you.
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Melissa – this is exactly what Sigrid wasn’t doing when she “judged” the mom for not wanting to do skin to skin right away. Geez – maybe she didn’t want to expose her chest to a nurse that might talk about her patient on an internet forum! Maybe not a HIPAA violation but not a classy move in the realm of patient-nurse relations.
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Details Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 12:51 pm (Quote)
But didn’t Sigrid keep her mouth shut? That is what it seems like to me. One of them had no hesitation of making rude and unfactual comments while the other one just made a mental note and kept her mouth shut. Kaytee, I think you are WAY out of line. There is a big difference between having an opinion that you keep to yourself and shoving your own biases down someone else’s throat.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
August 16th, 2011 at 5:37 am (Quote)
No, Sigrid DIDN’T keep her mouth shut.
The quote itself isn’t really bad by itself. I didn’t have a problem with it, really, until the OP said that it was stated with a judgmental attitude. Right, it was wrong to judge the OP for breastfeeding for 15months.
Then the OP went on to talk about the nurse’s own birth, and her rejection of doing immediate skin-to-skin. It wasn’t relevant to the quote above, it was just gossip to color the character of the nurse so the whole board could judge her.
What, judging women for their medical and parenting decisions is wrong except then the MOBSW board does it?
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Maybe there is *less* benefit after 12 months, but there are still benefits.
My almost 9-month-old daughter is formula fed because of a hormonal issue I developed, but she was breast fed for 4 months.
Every little bit counts!
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Angela Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 7:39 pm Angela(Quote)
Not less benefit, DIFFERENT benefit.
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