Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Jul
4
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“…We’ll Just Have To Put You On Birth Control To Fix It…”
“It’s common for women to suffer those symptoms after a tubal ligation. We’ll just have to put you on birth control to fix it. But, they aren’t caused by the tubal ligation.” – OB/Gyn to mother experiencing complications post tubal ligation.
There are 89 comments to this post.
My brain just blew up! HELP!!!
He said: “It’s common for women to suffer those symptoms after a tubal ligation. [...]But, they aren’t caused by the tubal ligation.”
So does this doctor want her to believe that it’s common for women to suffer these symptoms after a tubal ligation because all these women spontaneously predicted they’d have these symptoms and then en masse went to a doctor’s office to have a tubal ligation…?
“These are common after a tubal ligation but are not caused by a tubal ligation” means…what?
Don’t let that interjected sentence in the middle confuse you. Omit that and he’s basically saying, “A lot of people get muscle cramps after running five miles, but it has nothing to do with running five miles.”
How do doctors say outright lies like this with a straight face? Or worse, has this doctor convinced himself it’s true, that a lot of women all show up with the same symptoms after the same procedure, but it’s a total coincidence every time?
[Reply]
Dreamy Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 1:28 pm (Quote)
Well, I mean, that construction can *possibly* be accurate in some cases. A lot of men probably start getting gray hair within a couple of years of having vasectomies… because most men have vasectomies after they feel they’re done having children, which is generally going to be in the 35-50 age range, etc., etc.
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Kat Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 1:38 pm (Quote)
So, the next question is “Is it common for women of similar ages with no history of ‘needing’ hormone therapy to suddenly experience similar/identical symptoms without having undergone tubal ligation?”
If the answer is that significantly more women present with similar symptoms after a tubal ligation, than women with no tubal ligation, it should be investigated as to whether or not tubal ligation may cause the symptoms in some cases.
The information given in the OP makes it sound like it’s much more common in women who have had a tubal ligation, otherwise you would think the statement should read “It’s common for women in (this age range) to experience these symptoms…”
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Jane Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 2:14 pm (Quote)
But if it was “common” for men to suddenly lose their hair right after a vasectomy, there would have to be studies comparing hair loss in the general population of men versus hair loss in men who’d had vasectomies (balanced for age.)
The doctor said that it’s common for X to follow Y, then backpedaled and said there was no connection.
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Himom Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 5:45 am (Quote)
There is no PHYSICAL connection, of course.
Ya see – it’s all in her mind. Only a “certain type” of woman chooses to have a TL and that “type” tends to have hysteria issues, so she causes her own post tubal complications.
Now, the doc will write a referral to a psychiatrist…
(just to point out – I am being VERY sarcastic)
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Jessica had this to say,
Jul 4, 2011 @ 11:37 am (Quote)
It is in fact possible to have correlation without causation.
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Jane Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 1:00 pm (Quote)
Of course it is! Children with larger shoe sizes spell better than children with smaller ones. Why? Because in general children with bigger feet are older, and older children in general spell better than younger children.
But if it’s *common* for women who’ve just had a tubal ligation to complain about specific new symptoms right after having the tubal, then it’s ridiculous to say “It has nothing to do with the tubal” unless the doctor can point to some other cause that causes both those symptoms and tubal ligations.
Since tubal ligations don’t happen spontaneously, it’s highly unlikely that there could be an unrelated cause that is creating the symptoms that are “common” after a tubal ligation. “Common” being the doctor’s word above, not mine.
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Skyfire Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 1:27 pm (Quote)
This is true, but statistically significant correlation is unlikely to be random. More likely that the correlation might be caused by some third factor that caused both issues. I suppose that if this woman needed to avoid having more children for medical reasons, and her other symptoms were caused by whatever that was, but then why wouldn’t the doc just say that, and why would OP have posted it here?
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 6:26 pm (Quote)
Yes, but if that were the case in THIS instance, the quote would not be here on this board for us to throw rotten vegetables at and abuse.
If a mother (or a doula who sees something awful) reports a comment here, then there was obviously a reason.
There is no “other side” in such circumstances. There are plenty of other sites which are more neutral and where “fairness and balance” are more of a virtue in the conversation.
I am VERY tired of posts here that try to stick up for quoted care providers or “try to see the other side.” There are very few places on the internet where the mother who is grieving a bad birth experience can talk and be assumed to be in the right, no questions asked. It would be nice to see MOBSW remain one of the safe spaces.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 9:39 pm (Quote)
Agreed.
Truth isn’t a side.
Untruth isn’t safe.
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What Jane said. Plus, this must suck extra because I would think that *part* of the reason for getting a tubal is so that she wouldn’t have to be on birth control. Besides, being on hormonal birth control never “fixes” anything; it just masks the problem.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 9:37 pm (Quote)
Actually, yes, hormonal BC can and does fix problems. Plenty of women consider uncontrolled fertility a problem. I sure do. Moreover, hormonal BC can fix menstrual problems as well. It’s true.
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Lisa Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 6:50 am (Quote)
Hormonal BC doesn’t *fix* anything, it just masks the symptoms.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 10:08 am (Quote)
Yes, it DOES fix the problem for as long as it’s used. HBC doesn’t mask symptoms. It fixes the problem.
You may as well say that my glasses don’t correct my vision because I still have astigmatisms and go right back to being practically blind when I take them off.
Glasses fix my problem. So does hormonal birth control.
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Lisa Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 11:36 am (Quote)
Uh, no it doesn’t. I also have astigmatism – I still have it when I wear my glasses. If I go see a brand-new optometrist and have them check out my eyes while I’m wearing my glasses and “symptom”-free, I’d still get diagnosed with astigmatism. It’s a physical change of your eyeball, no pair of glasses in the world can change the shape of your eye. Likewise, if I have endometriosis that makes my periods horrible but the symptoms are better while on HBC, an OB could do an endometrial biopsy while I’m on BC and still diagnose me with endometriosis.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 12:34 pm (Quote)
Like I said, it fixes the problem, the problem being the symptoms. It doesn’t mask the symptoms, it corrects and manages them. Fixing the problem is not the same as curing the root cause. It doesn’t matter how much BC I use, I’ll still be a woman with a uterus.
Just like my glasses fix my vision problems so I can drive, and just like Vicodin fixed my pain after surgery, birth control fixes my problem of fertility, and could possibly fix my problem of menstrual irregularity if I had it. To say that HBC fixes nothing is just plain false.
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Lisa Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 6:16 pm (Quote)
Since you obviously seem to be having problems with the definition of symptom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symptom
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 7:10 pm (Quote)
And my use of the word is a departure from the definition given because…?
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Alyson Miers had this to say,
Jul 4, 2011 @ 12:01 pm (Quote)
If she might have complications after a tubal which require going on HBC, I think that’s something she would’ve liked to know before she had the tubal.
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From what I’ve heard (and seen in my mother), the symptoms of Post tubal ligation syndrome are worse than any hormonal birth control I’ve seen. The accounts I’ve come across make it seem like a total hysterectomy would be much easier to tolerate.
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The reason for getting the tubal in the first place was because my pregnancies were so complicated, and resulted in c-sections both times. I had severe morning sickness(HG), and risked severe kidney disease(I have weak kidneys as well) if I had another pregnancy. After debating for months, researching the procedure, and talking with my husband and OB, we all decided this would be the best thing. However, the OB did not inform me of any possible side effects from the tubal.
About 2 months after the tubal, is when all the symptoms started(severe ovulation pain, migraines, fatigue, heavy cycles.) The doctor wanted to put me on Depo, to “restart” my cycles, and I was so mad and angry. The whole point of having the tubal was so I didn’t need the hormonal birth control. My body doesn’t handle hormonal birth control well, so my husband and I had been practicing natural planning up until the second pregnancy. The OB told me there is no such thing as Post Tubal Ligation Syndrome, and that it basically was “all in my head” and that if I didn’t want to go on birth control, I should just get use to it. I’m managing the symptoms as best I can now, but they are still severe some months, and usually put me down for a few days.
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I also wanted to add, I’m only 26 years old. I’ve never in my life had cycles this harsh.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 6:28 pm (Quote)
How horrible. 
And the same description goes for my opinion of your doctor. I’m so sorry.
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Correlation does not equal causation.
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juliewashere88 had this to say,
Jul 4, 2011 @ 4:11 pm (Quote)
WTF?! The doctor is RIGHT!
I’m getting a tubal this month. I was told that I could use BC to regulate my cycles, but if they were already regular before I started BC anyway then they should be fine. But if my menstrual cycle would have been irregular without BC, then that’s what I could expect. The tubal has nothing to do with it.
“Post tubal ligation syndrome” is total bullshit.
From the New England Journal of Medicine, a peer-reviewed medical journal published by the Massachusetts Medical Society
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200012073432303
“The women who had undergone sterilization were no more likely than those who had not undergone the procedure to report persistent changes in intermenstrual bleeding or the length of the menstrual cycle.”
Correlation =/ causation.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 4:54 pm (Quote)
It’s not that menstrual irregularity or changes in cycle are common because of tubals, they’re common for all women. Going of hormonal BC just give you the chance to notice.
Irregular periods are an effect of going off hormonal BC, NOT of having a tubal.
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Melissa Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 5:07 pm (Quote)
Except that none of this applies to the OP.
She didn’t have difficult cycles without BC. So according to this logic, she shouldn’t have it now. Her difficulties weren’t being masked by hormonal BC, they were at the very least linked to, and perhaps caused by BC (note her decision to start using NFP methods because of how her body reacted to being on hormonal BC).
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 5:32 pm (Quote)
As I said, the menstrual irregularity is possibly an effect of coming off hormonal BC, either caused by the BC itself, or something that would have occurred on it’s own as a woman ages or as a result of pregnancy and was simply being controlled by the BC. Of course that’s just speculation.
The point is, studies have shown no significant difference in menstrual irregularity between sterilized and sterilized women. The doctor is RIGHT according to current research on the subject.
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Karolyn Mac Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 5:48 pm (Quote)
The OP stated above that she wasn’t coming off hormonal BC, they were using NFP. Therefore it’s not caused by that.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 5:57 pm (Quote)
Haven’t read my whole comment, have you?
BC or not, there are a lot of things that can alter a menstrual cycle, just aging or having a baby. Hell, stress and diet can do it.
I just meant that using BC could possibly control the irregularity, if it was used.
Studies on the subject have shown no link between sterilization and menstrual irregularity.
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Mama Wrench Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:03 pm (Quote)
“Diet and stress” — like the physical stress of surgery on one’s reproductive system?
Also, BC can control hormonal irregularity, but for many women it CAUSES hormonal irregularity. BC is not a panacea for all feminine issues or all women.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:16 pm (Quote)
Yes, like surgery. I had stress after I had a surgery on my arm, that doesn’t mean that any menstrual changes that followed were a result of that surgery itself. I certainly wouldn’t have called it a “side-effect” or felt the need to pathologize a reaction by calling it post radial shortening syndrome.
I don’t know if that’s the OP’s case, and I certainly don’t sit here at my desk trying to diagnose. Again, I only meant that lots of things can cause menstrual irregularity, however tubal ligations have not been shown to be among them. I even provided a scientific study from a peer-reviewed medical journal to back up my case.
The DR is not wrong, and this does not need to be a MOBSW thing, unless you take issue with the “We’ll just have to put you on birth control to fix it,” bit not being worded as a question.
Yes, I know BC can also cause hormonal irregularity. I never argued otherwise. Hell, it’s happened to me!
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Mama Wrench Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 5:52 pm (Quote)
Except that the OP already explained that she was using NON-hormonal birth control (NFP), not hormonal birth control, due to problems she had with artificial hormones. As someone else who experiences painful periods, mood imbalances, headaches, and rapid heartbeat on BC (symptoms which are also “not causational” according to some studies, despite the fact that I was in otherwise perfect health and returned to normal following going off HBC), I can understand where she’s coming from.
It’s also possible that the doctor accidentally damaged her reproductive system during the operation and doesn’t want to admit it due to liability issues.
Of course, it’s ALSO possible that PTLS is real, just not proven — just like it took decades for doctors to take fibromayalgia seriously, and many still don’t, based on other “peer-reviewed” studies.
Either way, telling a patient who is obviously in pain to either take a medication that makes her miserable, or just “deal” with being in pain, is neither compassionate nor responsive medical care.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:08 pm (Quote)
I have also had side-effects from using horomonal BC. With my IUD, I experienced cramping and dizziness after insertion and changes in my menstrual cycle as well as increased cramping. These side-effects are proven to be caused by the Mirena, and even discussed on the producers’ own website.
At the time of posting, the OP’s comment wasn’t visible. (I was using my phone.)Again, the point was that there are lots of things that can affect a menstruation cycle, but a tubal being among them is not supported by evidence.
I highly doubt PTLS as it a. has no supporting evidence, and b. is something I’ve only seen promoted by religious nuts who want to control women, and by doctors and clinics that profit from tubal reversal.
If doing nothing isn’t an option, but neither is taking horomones that regulate menstruation, what responsive medical care do you think the Dr should suggest? The only alternatives I can think of are pain meds, and other things used to treat menstrual symptoms, or things that are quite a bit more invasive.
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Jane Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:13 pm (Quote)
You mean religious nuts are convincing perfectly healthy women that they’re experiencing debilitating pain and extreme bleeding every month? And the doctors who profit from tubal reversal, they just walk up to happy women on the street and say “Have you had a tubal ligation? I bet you don’t realize your cycle has been putting you out of commission ever since then. Well, it’s true!”
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:25 pm (Quote)
No, I mean the religions nuts who use nonsense like post tubal ligation syndrome the same way they use the equally imaginary post abortion syndrome, as a tool to scare women out of doing things.
As for the profiteers for tubal reversal, um, yeah. Prettymuch. I can’t even Google tubal ligation to look for real information without sites offering tubal reversal being right on top. Funny that these are the only doctors promoting this and without any supporting research to back any of it up.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 6:32 pm (Quote)
None of which even remotely justifies the doctor telling the OP that her symptoms were basically all in her head.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 10:12 am (Quote)
Which is probably why he didn’t do it, at least not in the quote at the top of the page.
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Mama Wrench Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:18 pm (Quote)
Actually, just from the little bit of reading I’ve been doing I haven’t seen ANYTHING suggesting that it’s “religious nuts” promoting the idea of PTLS as a legitimate medical complaint; I see a lot of individual women saying that they were fine before TL and experience pain, discomfort and other symptoms after. Simply saying “There is no evidence” does not mean that all of these women are either being dishonest about their symptoms and experiences, or that they just conveniently forgot what life was like before messing with their reproductive systems, either hormonally or surgically. The only reasonable way to study the difference would be to follow ONLY women who did not use any artificial means of birth control prior to TL and compare them to a control group of non-HBC women, which the study you posted does not do — rather, they use HBC as a means of explaining away hormone imbalances caused by either going off HBC or TL.
Either way, I would expect a physician to at LEAST take his patient seriously and explore whether she experienced peripheral trauma during surgery, test hormone levels and ensure her ovaries are properly regulating her hormones, and go from there — rather than just throwing more medications at her that she clearly didn’t want in the first place and telling her to quit her kvetching if she doesn’t want to take his medical ‘advise’ simply because he doesn’t take her seriously.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:31 pm (Quote)
I agree that the doctor should investigate the matter thoroughly, as is his job. I’ve never said anything to the contrary.
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Sheva Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 5:46 pm (Quote)
Hey, be nice! You might be right (I didn’t read your link) but there’s no need to be rude.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:10 pm (Quote)
Sorry, are you talking to me?
In what way was I rude?
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jaed Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 10:27 pm (Quote)
When we comment here on another woman’s submission, we try to assume her good faith. We try not to call “bullshit” about what she’s experienced, or to doubt her word or ignore her statements about her medical condition. Doing these things when commenting about another woman’s experience is, yes, rather rude, and this is the second time you’ve done so today on this site.
You may want to consider modifying your approach.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:47 pm (Quote)
I didn’t call her experience bullshit.
I called post-tubal ligation sydrome bullshit. And it is. And I’ve presented evidence to back me up.
This is the second time I’ve been rude on the 4th on this site? Well, I don’t think I was rude here. How can one be called rude for citing a scientific study? On what other occasion was I supposedly rude that day?
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 6:39 pm (Quote)
By any chance, were you sticking up for a care provider’s (possible) side of the story? or providing information that something a mother said was not backed by evidence elsewhere?
If so, that’s probably why you got accused of rudeness. A lot of us here have birth trauma, and we’re not here because we’re trying to see things from all perspectives and come to peace and forgiveness. We’re here because we want to say horrible things about horrible things medical professionals have said and/or done. Objectivity is NOT the name of the game, in such circumstances.
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Jane Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:10 pm (Quote)
Even if the doctor is right that PTLS doesn’t exist, then the doctor shouldn’t have said the FIRST part of the sentence, that those symptoms are common after a woman has a tubal ligation.
Remember that it took ten years to prove thalidomide was harming babies too. Obstetric textbooks used to say X-rays were perfectly safe for a developing fetus. Sometimes the doctors are so convinced something is safe that they don’t want to look at it.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:30 pm (Quote)
The effect of tubal ligation on menstrual regularity HAS been looked at, as I’ve shown.
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K Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 8:48 pm (Quote)
With a single, solitary study.
One study.
How many studies have been done that prove it IS real? Did you look that up too?
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Mama Wrench Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:21 am (Quote)
With a single study that DIDN’T control hormone birth control as a variable, no less. It’s as though the assumption is that every single woman who gets TL was on hormone birth control beforehand because, I guess, all women are either trying to get pregnant or are on every kind of medication imaginable to avoid pregnancy.
Though it seems to me that the poster just thinks that anything that’s not “proven” doesn’t exist, no matter how many women experience the exact same symptoms, and that anyone who disagrees is simply an extremist nutjob. Hey… maybe she’s an OB?
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steph Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 6:40 pm (Quote)
PTLS is bullshit you say??? That’s funny because I had SEVERE PTLS (migraines which required ER trips for morphine, abdominal pain, periods which lasted for 2 weeks when they had been 3-4 days prior to my ligation, zero sex drive, etc…)…which resolved itself about 2 weeks after I had my tubal ligation reversed. And I know the reversal worked because I had 2 more kids. I think our bodies were built the way they were built for a reason. When we try to circumvent the system, bad things can happen.
Now, I know that many women are perfectly happy with their ligations, but if I had been told about PTLS before my ligation, I would have reconsidered. I got my life back when I shelled out the cash to have the tubal reversed. My 2 “extra” daughters are the icing on the cake.
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Kristin Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 8:47 pm (Quote)
Just to let you know, ONE scientific study, does not make it a fact. I mean, they have done thousands of studies on psychoactive medications from depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, etc. And all they have are THEORIES on how the drugs MAY work on the human mind.
What is true for one person, may not be true for all. The OP may have experienced symptoms which are similar to the symptoms of others who have undergone the same procedure, perhaps they are rare. But to say that she is making it all up just seems unfair, considering you have never actually met her.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:45 pm (Quote)
I’ve never accused anyone of making up their symptoms. Why accuse me of something I haven’t done?
If there was a link between tubals and so-called post tubal ligation syndrome, a study would have shown that. Do you have any studies that show a link? If you do, I’d like to see it. It would be well worth the read, I think.
It seems to be that if we’re going to go declaring tubals as a cause for symptoms x, y and z, there should be some kind of proof first to demonstrate that. As far as I know, zilch.
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SculptorAlison Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 1:29 pm (Quote)
You seem to have a very blind faith in the medical establishment and their abilities and motives. Studies are as flawed as people, if not more so because those flawed people’s biases get involved in the results. Women’s health issues are also notoriously ignored and brushed off as unimportant so it’s not surprising that nobody seems to give a rats ass whether or not there is such a thing as PTLS. BCP supposedly don’t cause you to gain weight either which I imagine a whole bunch of us on here all know is a crock.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 6:42 pm (Quote)
I don’t put blind faith in anything. I believe what can be objectively demonstrated with hard facts and evidence, and am ready to change my mind should the evidence lead me to do so – the very opposite of blind faith.
So a PEER REVIEWED scientific study can be flawed and biased but a few anecdotes can’t be? And you accuse me of blind faith? I wonder if you would still decry “blind faith in the medical establishment” if the study had provided the results you wanted it to. Yes, studies can be flawed. The peer-review process exists to expose flaws. The peer-review process is brutal by design, the beauty of the scientific method. Still, mistakes can, possibly, go unchecked.
If you know of any flaws in this study, or know of any conflicting studies from credible sources, I’d very much like to hear it. I mean that with all sincerely, as a person who plans to get a tubal in a few days.
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Lisa Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 11:12 pm (Quote)
Well, aren’t you a peach? Your anti-child blog is a nice touch, too. Why do you even have any interest in this site, anyway?
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Amberoni Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:09 am (Quote)
WOW. Yes, indeed, nice blog. I’m glad that you are going through with your ligation since you don’t want children, and I think people who don’t want children should take measures to prevent that happening. Bravo for taking yourself out of the gene pool. I wish several particular people had the self awareness to realize they would not be good parents and would not appreciate their kids.
I have to honestly also hope that you don’t experience any problems stemming from your ligation, which looks like it’s coming right up. Of course, since you’ve found some doctors who can tell you that this surgery won’t harm you at all, no matter what the outcome, it sounds like it’s the fault of your body, not the BC or surgery. Anywho, since this site is pretty much for women interested in having children, you might consider running along and finding your own people.
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Billie Jo Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 4:36 am (Quote)
Please explain how someone who wants to be Child Free and is going to the extremes of a tubal just to ensure that would even WANT to read the submissions found on this website?
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CuteCuddlySarcastic Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 6:25 am (Quote)
not the OP, but I have no children, don’t want children, have thought about a tubal ligation, and I’m fascinated enough by pregnancy and birth to be starting down the path to become a midwife.
The OP, on the other hand, may just be a mean lady.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:41 pm (Quote)
1. I don’t have an “anti-child blog” but feel free to fling baseless attacks at me if you can’t contend with what I’ve actually said and the facts I’ve presented to back my words up.
2. Why am I interested in this site? Um, how about because I’m still a human being AND a woman even though I’m not a mom? I haven’t noticed any posting rules that dictate that only people who have had kids could post, but if there is such a rule, please feel free to show me.
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C.Pratt Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 2:45 pm (Quote)
Gosh, Julie, I sure hope you don’t suffer from Post tubal ligation syndrome after your upcoming planned tubal. I mean, since you don’t believe it exists and all…
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 4:31 pm (Quote)
Lol, oh, sure you don’t. Because that doesn’t sound like an awkward threat at all.
Not that I care, as I’m sure I won’t come down with PTLS, just like none of the many people I know who have had tubals ever had any such thing happen to them and consider all available research seems to suggest that the symptoms of the so-called PTLS aren’t actually linked to tubals.
Yeah, I don’t let fear mongering and anecdotes get between me and my medical care. It’s a shame that some people seem to have a problem with that.
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CuteCuddlySarcastic had this to say,
Jul 5, 2011 @ 6:28 am (Quote)
” Anywho, since this site is pretty much for women interested in having children, you might consider running along and finding your own people.”
If “your own people” means “people who verbally attack someone in pain”, I agree with you. But of you mean “your own people” as in “childfree”, I’m feeling really uncomfortable, because I thought this was not only a place for mothers, but a place for people who are frustrated with the standard of care for women.
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CuteCuddlySarcastic Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 6:28 am (Quote)
dang, that started as a reply to Amberoni.
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Amberoni Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 8:27 am (Quote)
Having read her blog, what I’m meaning my her people would be your point of someone who responds to a woman’s pain with mocking and denial and some who is so against childbirth she calls mothers and fathers “breeders.” I can totally understand not wanting children – I was there for about 20 years, and I would not presume to tell anyone else they will change mindsets or “just wait until it happens to you.”
On the other hand, while folks do post lots of nurse/midwife/pediatrician quotes, the name of the site is My OB Said What? and OB means doctor for lady babymakers, not just ladies, so a modicum of respect toward lady babymakers (mothers) should be maintained. (CuteCuddlySarcastic – very nice tone. juliewashere88 – work on that.)
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:34 pm (Quote)
Oh, dear, do you realize you’re lying?
1. I’ve never mocked or denied anyone’s pain. I have denied medical quackery, however, and presented evidence to back up my point. I don’t deny the syptoms, I deny the presumed cause, what with it not only not being proven to be the cause, but being proven NOT to be the cause.
2. I don’t call parents “breeders.” Not here, not on my blog. I have, however, referred to having biological kids as “breeding” as that’s not inaccurate and to differentiate that means of having kids from adoption.
3. I’m not against childbirth for anyone but myself and anyone else who isn’t interested in going through that. I am against overpopulation, however, as it is a pressing danger.
4. I haven’t disrespected anyone in this thread, unless actually backing up what I say as opposed to the ad homs you happily used on me, should be called disrpectful. Excuse me if my insistance upon accuracy had displeased you.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:37 pm (Quote)
5. Almost all OBs are also GYNs. I’m dealing with the same doctors you are. Hell, I’ve even had quotes submitted here published on the site. Yes, it turns out women’s rights and patient’s rights aren’t just important for parents.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:28 pm (Quote)
I was under the impression that this site was about OB/GYN care, which -and get this- WASN’T something that only women who are/were/plan to be pregnant need during their lives.
Silly me for taking an interest in OB/GYN care and patient’s rights while not being interested in parenting. I guess us non-parents never need medical care, or ever see patient’s rights as worth protecting. Oh, boy, have I been misguided thinking of myself as a person even though I have no kids.
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Marianne Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 10:50 am (Quote)
The purpose of this site is to capture the crazy but true comments said to birthing women by doctors, midwives, doulas, lactation consultants, and childbirth educators when they are having their babies! Got a “My OB Said WHAT?!?” to share?? Send them to submissions@myobsaidwhat.com. And watch this site for more unbelievable but true comments said to women as they birth their babies!
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 11:39 am (Quote)
There are plenty of quotes on this site not related directly to pregnancy or birth. I actually have shared quotes on this site. Even without an interest in parenting, I’m still a woman who still needs to go to the OB/GYN clinic and still gets told nonsense sometimes. And as a human beings, I’m still very interested in patient’s rights. Until such a time as an admin sees fit to ban me, I do not consider myself out of place here.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 11:41 am (Quote)
Even if I don’t always follow the crowd, or change my position after being bullied for having a differing opinion or presenting contrary facts.
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C.Pratt Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 3:16 pm (Quote)
No one bullied you. They asked you to be more sensitive to the OP’s pain and frustration after you called her physical symptoms “bullshit”. If you are going to be so heartless it really doesn’t matter what studies you present. You miss the point of this site!!! To support those who are hurting. If you can’t do that then you will be getting shoo-ed along. It’s not bullying for someone to turn away from you for being a stubborn ass.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 4:26 pm (Quote)
Oh, so people accusing me of being anti-child and telling me that I don’t deserve to comment because I’m not interested in being a mother, or that I’m a “stubborn ass” for insisting on facts isn’t bullying behavior? I cited a scientific study, and because people don’t like that, they’ve resorted to ad hominem attacks as a means to discredit me. It says a lot more about the people who do that than it does me.
I didn’t call anyone’s symptoms bullhshit. I called PTLS bullshit, and backed up what I’ve said. As far as I’m aware, no legitimate medical organization recognizes PTLS and scientific current scientific research doesn’t support that idea that tubals are linked to any of the symptoms attributed to PTLS. It seems to me that if someone is going to tall a group of symptoms a syndrome, and then propose a cause as part of the name, they aught to be able to back it up with hard facts.
It is beyond horrifying that when women research tubal ligations for themselves that they’re met with fear mongering relgionists and money-grubbing doctors, rather than accurate information. How do you think I felt, while researching tubal ligation for myself and seeing POST TUBAL LIGATION SYNDROME in big scary letters before realizing that I only saw it on anti-choice sites, websites of doctors who profit from tubal reversal, and in the self-diagnosis of a few people in scattered anecdotes? It might not have taken me so long to decide on a tubal if it weren’t for nonsense like that getting between me and accurate information.
If you have ANY information at all, a credible source you can site to support PTLS, I would LOVE to see it and I’m being very sincere when I say that. That’s the difference between me and some other people, I don’t stubbornly cling to a flawed belief after being proven wrong.
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juliewashere88 Reply:
July 9th, 2011 at 9:27 pm (Quote)
I didn’t verbally attack anyone.
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CuteCuddlySarcastic Reply:
July 10th, 2011 at 10:31 am (Quote)
I think there is a very, very fine line when say calling PTLS bullshit is not demeaning to someone elses experiences. When a woman says “my symptoms started after my tubal ligation, and the best explanation I have for it is PTLS” and you say PTLS is bullshit, I think it is disingenuous to say that you’re not negating that woman’s experience, and that you’re not attacking that woman’s assertions. There are a lot more tactful ways you could have brought up the information, and instead of acknowledging that, you’ve become defensive. I feel like I understand both sides, and I think you’re in the wrong.
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juliewashere88q Reply:
July 10th, 2011 at 12:55 pm (Quote)
Nonsense, I didn’t demean anyone’s experience. I only expressed and demonstrated that post tubal ligation syndrome is unfounded. I stand by my statement that post tubal ligation syndrome is, in fact, bullshit.
I didn’t say that anyone wasn’t experiencing what they’re experiencing, I just reject the self-diagnosis. No such syndrome is officially recognized by any legitimate medical organization, to my knowledge, and multiple studies on the subject (I only linked to one) have not only failed to demonstrate the supposed symptoms of PTLS actually being linked to tubal ligation, but have actually proven otherwise.
It seems to me that if someone is going to call something post tubal ligation syndrome, they should actually be able to demonstrate that the tubal ligation was, in fact, the cause of symptoms X, Y, and Z, and those symptoms should be consistent. The supposed symptoms of PTLS are so wildly varied, they could really be anything. Hell, I already exhibit some of the supposed symptoms, and I haven’t even had a tubal yet. What, do they start early? You know what’s really fun? Look up the symptoms for PTLS, which I bet you’re only likely to find on a website for a doctor who profits from tubal reversal, and compare it to the symptoms of menopause.
I’ve asked multiple times for any study demonstrating a link between tubal ligation and any of the symptoms attributed to PTLS. As someone who will be getting a tubal ligation tomorrow, that’s precisely the kind of information I want to have. So far, nothing. Out of all the people here who express belief in this condition, not a single one can back it up? I find that very telling.
It’s amazing that I should be accused of being defensive for standing with facts and not slinking away after being repeatedly and falsely accused of attacking people.
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“The purpose of this site is to capture the crazy but true comments said to birthing women by doctors, midwives, doulas, lactation consultants, and childbirth educators when they are having their babies! Got a “My OB Said WHAT?!?” to share?? Send them to submissions@myobsaidwhat.com. And watch this site for more unbelievable but true comments said to women as they birth their babies!”
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I have seen birth control work to help correct hormonal imballances so, I’m with the doc on this for treatment.
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holly Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 4:04 am (Quote)
LOL however i love that it’s commen for this to happen when you tie your tubes but it has nothing to do with tying your tubes : ) this is similar to the fact that you will have frustrations anytime you go to deal with hospital staff but it has nothing to do with the hospital staff!
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juliewashere88 Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 9:38 am (Quote)
Actually, the symptoms the OP describes (pain, migraines) aren’t common after tubals. Heavy periods are, but that likely has nothing to do with the tubal, as scientific studies demonstrate. Correlation is not causation. There are other variables and you can never fix the problem if you don’t identify the real cause.
My periods got heavier after I had my tubal. However this has absolutely nothing to do with the tubal itself, but was an effect of going off hormonal birth control which had been making my periods lighter for years. Basically, I got my normal periods from before I started birth control at 18 back. My periods got heavier after my tubal. But this had nothing to do with the tubal.
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*facepalm
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