Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Jan
11
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“Now Why Did You Go And Do That?”
“Now why did you go and do that?” – OB to mother who said that she had watched a video about circumcision to learn more about the procedure.
There are 84 comments to this post.
The Deranged Housewife had this to say,
Jan 11, 2011 @ 4:47 am (Quote)
“Because I can’t depend on YOU to tell me ANYTHING, doctor.”
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road2vba2c Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 8:09 am (Quote)
*triple like!*
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Cassaundra Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 8:19 am (Quote)
quadruple, plus quintuple, plus a zillion LIKE!
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Ugh. What really gets me is that women will adamantly oppose pain relief & episiotomies…but cut off their son’s foreskin without much thought. Sorry, Doc…you got one of them there edumacated breeders.
:-/
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Jane Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 6:42 am (Quote)
What I don’t understand is why they all but insist a woman receive pain relief for normal labor but then deny infants pain relief during a circumcision. Why is my pain worth more than my baby’s pain?
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krystil Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 7:21 am (Quote)
According to the doc my mother had for my brother “infants don’t feel pain, so it’s okay.”
They never even asked her about it. They just did it, she happened to be walking by the nursery. Fun.
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road2vba2c Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 8:08 am (Quote)
It reminds me of a conversation I had with my MIL when explaining how to clean DS’s penis. She told me when she was pregnant with DH, she was with her nephew when he was circumcised. She said she cried her eyes out and swore she wouldn’t circ her baby. I asked her, “SO WHY DID YOU DO IT?!?!” She said, “It just seemed like the right thing to do.” So sad…
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Alyson Miers Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 7:22 am (Quote)
Because a new baby is small and weak enough to be held down during a painful operation, but a woman of childbearing age just might get up and walk away if she’s not anesthetized.
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Elizabeth S Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 1:09 pm (Quote)
That’s scary; our ped. uses a local for all circumcisions.
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Aleyna Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 4:55 pm (Quote)
More are using the locals, but most never wait the requisite time for the pain medication to actually take effect. 
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Heather Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 5:40 am (Quote)
Even if they do use a local AND wait for it to take effect:
That local is going to wear off. That baby is going to have a large chunk of skin missing, open wounds on the head of his penis from the doctor ripping the foreskin away… It doesn’t go away with the anesthetic. When the anesthetic wears off, it still hurts very much.
Think of someone ripping your fingernail off… Even if it were anesthetized before hand, it’s still going to hurt when the meds wear off.
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Sarah Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 7:46 am (Quote)
Not only that, but it’s a wound that’s inside a diaper, being urinated and defecated on while it heals. That cant feel good either (I know they usually have dressing on the wound, but no way can it be protected 100%).
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Heather Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 9:35 am (Quote)
And they have the nerve to say that circumcising REDUCES infections. Ugh. Anyone knows that when you open the skin it raises the risk for infections.
Many of the infections that they get so worried about in intact boys is actually caused by forced retraction, which tears the skin from the glans. Not only OUCH but opens the way for infections. Sad that information could prevent many of these infections that they claim only surgery can prevent.
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kc Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 1:38 pm (Quote)
I always find it a bit strange when women plan these all natural, low intervention, super crunchy births, then still go ahead and circumcise their baby boys.
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Grace Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 9:43 pm (Quote)
I know, so sad. I have a friend that did that who used this *same* OB I was referring to in this entry. She unfortunately did not educate herself beforehand. Her poor baby boy!
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DanaK Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 5:06 pm (Quote)
I almost lost it when I read how a mom planned a home birth and then had to schedule her son’s circumcision. It makes no sense to me…you don’t want any medical intervention but you are perfectly willing to subject your infant to cosmetic surgery.
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Marissa Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 6:53 pm (Quote)
I didn’t know any better when I had my son (he’s my oldest) and no one told me there was a chance he might hemorrhage so, we opted to do it so he would look like his dad. I’m not sure why I thought that was important at the time. If I’d had any idea that it could feasibly have killed him, you better believe we wouldn’t have done it. I was young and stupid and it was dumb luck that I didn’t wind up having unnecessary interventions pushed on me during my labor and delivery. Probably mostly because I showed up there needing to push…
Not all decisions are rational. And sadly, some of those decisions end up following us around for the rest of our lives.
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Alyson Miers had this to say,
Jan 11, 2011 @ 6:37 am (Quote)
Haven’t you figured this out yet, Dr. Douchewaffle? She did it JUST TO PISS YOU OFF. Doesn’t seem to take much effort, mind you.
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This one is mine! This was during my first pregnancy. My husband was adamant about having our potential son circ’d (we didn’t know what we were having). My gut told me not to do it, so I started doing some research about it, which included watching a video (a must for all parents to be of boys). What I saw horrified me, so I brought it up with my OB at my next appointment and asked him how he performed the procedure. He’s from the insane school of thought that thinks newborns can’t feel pain as well, so he doesn’t bother with pain meds. I was so distressed after this discussion with him, and I started crying during the convo. My husband still wanted it done!! Thankfully we had a girl!!!
My second is a boy who was left intact (after much more research and thankfully convincing my husband). My son and I won. 
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Kara Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 12:09 pm (Quote)
I had a similar experience with the video. I kept researching and KNEW I didn’t want my son circumcised. My husband, on the other hand, did want it done. He came home to a hysterical pregnant woman one day and asked what was wrong. I said “I’ve just watched a video of a routine infant circumcision. If you want our son to live through it, you’d better be able to watch it!” He declined, but said he’d been thinking and didn’t want our son circ’d afterall. Luckily, I had a great midwife. One of the things I asked her (purposely in front of my husband, since I already knew the answer) was what the medical benefits of circumcision were. Her response: “None.” Happy to say that my husband is now on board and thinks that RIC is pointless.
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Elizabeth Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 12:27 pm (Quote)
Oh my goodness I cannot believe there are living breathing doctors out there that believe babies don’t feel pain!I would definitely be spreading the word in the area about that doctor! How disgusting!
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Well Rounded Birth Prep Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 4:53 pm (Quote)
What a victory, Grace! I’m so glad you had a good result & kept your son intact when the time came. Did you stay with that OB for the birth of your daughter after that difficult convo w/ him? Was he your OB both times?
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Grace Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 5:54 pm (Quote)
Yes, i did stay with his practice for both of my pregnancies, but he personally did not deliver either of my babies. I liked him as my Dr. as he was very easygoing, and even did water birth deliveries, which is why I chose his practice, but after having my son and doing more circumcision research, I didn’t feel right supporting his practice anymore. So I will not be going back. We moved anyway, so I will be on the lookout for a midwife soon to go to instead.
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I’ve never been able to watch one of those videos the whole way through. I was watching one one time with the sound on and my German Shepherd tried climbing up into my lap to lick the screen to comfort the baby there. Another time I tried watching it my then 3 year old told me she didn’t like this movie. I told her that grandma wanted us to do that to her sibling. She started crying. We assured her that we wouldn’t do that.
If you are unable to sit through the video how could you possibly subject a newborn to it?
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LeedleFishy had this to say,
Jan 11, 2011 @ 9:37 am (Quote)
As a mom who believes adamantly in a parent’s right to choose whether or not they want to circumcise their sons, I still take issue with the fact that this OB didn’t like their patient educating themselves.
It’s true that some doctors don’t use any anesthetic, but some do — ours did — so what’s the crime in finding out HOW it’s going to be done IF it’s going to be done?
I know this is a super-controversial issue, but feel that moms who don’t think circumcision should be legal are just as bad as doctors who don’t think VBACs should be legal. There are pros and cons, and it should be an available choice.
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dahlia Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 9:54 am (Quote)
Then female circ should be legal too, right /
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Heather Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 9:38 am (Quote)
Yep. Constitution says we can’t discriminate because of gender. . . If FGM is illegal, MGM, by the constitution, should be, too.
Not to mention, when is it someone else’s right to decide what part of a baby gets amputated?
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Jenni Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 5:01 pm (Quote)
this is totally TMI- but after watching videos on intact penis care- i was rather sad that my husband is circ’d, i have the equivalent area of my body, and i sure like it, i am sad that he didnt have foreskin anymore. and he’s too easygoing to care so i said if we have a boy, its not happening and he said “i guess”… so if we have a boy, i’ll have to give him instructions.
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Sarah Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 10:01 am (Quote)
It should be an available choice… to be made by the owner of the penis being cut.
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Kelly Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 10:31 am (Quote)
Well, there you go being reasonable. Reason has no place in this debate, you big silly.
We didn’t circ, but I’m not raining judgment down on those who do. The procedure, as much as I dislike it, is not so horrible, scarring, and destructive that we need to attack each other over it.
And female circumcision does not equate. As far as I can tell, the man junk still works after being circ’d.
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Grace Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 11:01 am (Quote)
I don’t want to argue, but Female circ *can* be the same exact thing. You can totally take a female newborn, strap her to a circumstraint, and have an OB cut off her prepuce organ, which in girls is the clitoral hood. But this is illegal in our country. After all of my research, I can’t understand why it’s ok for boys, but not for girls. It is the same thing. Genital amputation should be illegal for all minors for any reason (except for gangrene which would warrant an amputation of any body part).
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Marissa Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 11:17 am (Quote)
Historically, male circumcision was an indication of class status and wealth. Since it’s “gross” to not be able to clean under the foreskin effectively, and traditionally the lower classes had less access to practices that allow for better hygiene, it became a male thing, but not a female thing. There is nothing there that makes anything any cleaner for women. There was a sense of logic behind why it wasn’t done to women, but was done to men. There is some attachment to that idea, in spite of the clinical evidence against it now, and so for reasons that defy logic, it is still practiced for no good reason.
I am personally of the belief that religion is a good enough reason for the practice, however distasteful I personally think it is. The religious version involves taking significantly less of the foreskin than the clinical version though.
There are a lot of practices that we now see as barbaric that were common in the not so far distant past though for women, particularly. Binding feet, forced pregnancy, and sewing genitalia shut for example. Those and FGM are considered by the wider world a practice that involves subjugating women though. Since MGM (at least 60 years ago) was a sign of wealth, it is societally acceptable. It seems reasonable that after the generation of baby boomers dies, routinely circumcizing infant boys will probably fall out of use.
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LeedleFishy Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 4:01 pm (Quote)
“Genital amputation should be illegal for all minors for any reason (except for gangrene which would warrant an amputation of any body part).”
Honestly, if it’s such a terrible thing that anyone would advocate removing rights & freedoms from others, then age has no bearing on it.
Divorce, smoking, and credit card debt should also be made illegal — they have many, many more studies actually proving the damage they do than circumcision opponents could even think up.
And even if that weren’t the case, I don’t agree with them so I don’t think you should do it. Isn’t that the point? “I don’t like circumcision, so you don’t get to have it as an option for your family.”
It’s sad that even a board full of women who want freedoms and choices would shove their own preferences down the throats of others.
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Sarah Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 4:49 pm (Quote)
“It’s sad that even a board full of women who want freedoms and choices would shove their own preferences down the throats of others.”
Sorry, but… we are advocating FOR choice. We want choice for our bodies. We want boys to have choice for their bodies too. There is no discrepancy here.
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Lisa Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 5:27 pm (Quote)
“Divorce, smoking, and credit card debt should also be made illegal…”
Well, it IS illegal to force a minor to marry/divorce. It IS illegal to make your kid smoke cigarettes. It IS illegal to take out credit cards in your baby’s name and ruin his credit.
If an adult wants to make potentially damaging decisions for himself, that’s his own business. Choosing to make those decisions for someone who cannot speak for himself is unethical.
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Kelly Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 8:38 am (Quote)
I agree. It seems utterly hypocritical to insist that other people should support the choices we make while simultaneously wanting to remove choices for other people.
I disagree with circumcision, but it’s not my decision to make for other parents.
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LeedleFishy Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 1:47 pm (Quote)
I really appreciate that you understand where I’m coming from.
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Lisa Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 11:09 am (Quote)
“I agree. It seems utterly hypocritical to insist that other people should support the choices we make while simultaneously wanting to remove choices for other people.”
To me it seems utterly hypocritical to advocate for a parent’s choice to circ their son when that choice takes away the CHILD’S choice of whether or not to keep his genitals intact. I am a huge advocate for choice when it comes to circumcision. The owner of the penis should be entitled to choose which parts he’d like to keep and which he’d like to cut off. That choice belongs to him and him alone.
I really cannot fathom why this isn’t an obvious truth to everyone.
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Jane Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 11:11 am (Quote)
I wonder what this OB would have said to ANY question of procedure, though.
Patient: “I read an article about how an episiotomy is performed, and I was wondering whether you a median or a mediolateral episiotomy.”
Doctor: “Now WHY would you go and read about that? Don’t worry your pretty little head and I’ll take care of all the details.”
It’s offensive if the doctor blows off any attempt by the patient to educate herself about any subject. I dont’ care if the procedure is controversial or not: the patient has every right to engage in informed decision-making.
Patient: I was reading about prenatal vitamins, and I was wondering what kind of vitamins you prescribe.
Doctor: Now why would you read up about that? Just take whatever I tell you and everything will be fine.
Patient: I was reading the real estate section and wondering whether Easthaven had a better commute than Westhaven
Doctor: Now why would you do that? Live in Westhaven. That’s where I live.
See? Offensive no matter what the subject matter.
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Heather P Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 3:36 pm (Quote)
I wasn’t going to comment until I read your third paragraph. The VBAC issue is very comparable. Forcing a woman to a cesearean against her will is exactly the same as strapping down an infant and doing surgery to him against his will.
Perhaps parental permission to circumcisions is more analogous to the doctor asking a husband whether or not to do a cesearean on his wife.
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Just me, but... had this to say,
Jan 11, 2011 @ 9:47 am (Quote)
If babies don’t feel pain, why did they used to smack them at birth to make them cry? Come to think of it, why do babies cry at all? That ‘reasoning’ is just absurd.
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VW Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 12:48 pm (Quote)
Acc to my grandmother-in-law, they cry to exercise their lungs, and should have plenty opportunity to do so :-Z
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What the OB said reminds me of how we are forever reacting to my BIL the conspiracy theorist. Somehow educating oneself about circumcision doesn’t seem to fall into that same category as contesting that we never really went to the moon or that Condaleesa Rice caused the 9/11 attacks though.
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Marissa Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 11:04 am (Quote)
By the way, paralyzing infants for all surgery rather than anesthetizing them was a common practice through the 70s and even into the 80s. There’s a letter to the editor about it in the New York Times in 1987. http://www.nytimes.com/1987/12/17/opinion/l-why-infant-surgery-without-anesthesia-went-unchallenged-832387.html
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Cedar had this to say,
Jan 11, 2011 @ 11:39 am (Quote)
To the person who says man junk still works after circ, being able to have an erection and ejaculate is not the same thing as having full sexual function. Read this site and see if you still feel the same: http://sexasnatureintendedit.com/
I hate to join in the circumcision debate instead of commenting just on the quote, but I couldn’t let that one go. The more you learn about circ, the worse it gets!
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Kelly Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 1:38 pm (Quote)
Well, after asking around, the consensus seems to be that even bad orgasms are bang on the money. You can’t miss what you don’t remember having.
And honestly, I find it funny that more often than not it’s women who are debating this. The men I know are mystified by this!
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Dreamy Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 1:52 pm (Quote)
Because mothers are expected to take on the vast majority of child-rearing decisions and responsibilities? It’s no mystery…
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Lisa Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 2:53 pm (Quote)
Well, women of circ’d partners have to put up with inferior sex. A scarred, calloused, circ’d glans works a lot differently than an intact penis. The latter needs less (or no) artificial lube, and is more sensitive to different types of touch, not just the woman-unfriendly “battering ram” style sex needed to stimulate the scarred penis sufficiently.
So, yes, women should be involved in the conversation. Not only as mothers who want to protect their sons, but as sex partners.
If someone cut my genitals, I wouldn’t know what I was missing, but it doesn’t mean it’s ethical to do such a thing to a minor who cannot give consent.
It’s his penis. It should be his choice to have full feeling and function or a keratinized, less sensitive glans. End of story.
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Anon Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 9:47 am (Quote)
I know I wish my husband were intact rather than cut. He’s scarred halfway up his shaft and it’s a pretty standard circumcision. So many men out there are unhappy with being circ’d that there is a heavy market for those who offer advice or products to help restore the male foreskin. Mind you, it’s not the same, but second best.
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Restoring Tally Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 4:26 pm (Quote)
I am a circumcised man and I hate it. My penis lost so much sensitivity as I aged that sex was no longer pleasurable. All because of my circumcision. I know this because I am restoring my foreskin and I have regained my sex life as I my foreskin became restored. With my new foreskin I now have whole body orgasms, something I never had as a circumcised man. Alsom I no longer need to use lube during sex and my wife no longer gets sore from sex.
The foreskin is part of the sex organ. It is there for a reason and many men miss it.
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Grace Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 6:04 pm (Quote)
Thank you for sharing Tally. my husband is now restoring as well (yes, he went from pro-circ to restoring in just a few years!), and yes from the wife’s prospective, sex is MUCH better than it was before starting restoration. Foreskins are awesome. I just wish my Mother-in-law would’ve thought to leave my husband alone because it would’ve saved us a LOT of sexual frustration in the first 5 years of our marriage.
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Naya Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 1:40 pm (Quote)
I read that whole website, and it is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard in my entire life!!
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Alison Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 2:06 pm (Quote)
How is it ridiculous? Circumcision the way it is done now in the US (and only the US) has only been done since the late 1800′s and because popular as a masturbation deterrent and a way to “punish” war vets who came home with VD. It’s the only functioning body part that’s so cavalierly done away with and it’s benefits and actual function are swept under the rug. Even the appendix (which does have a function) gets more respect than the male prepuce.
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I would have loved for an OB to ask me this…so I could lay into them and ask how in the heck they could stand to do this to babies. I was asked SIX different times at the hospital if I wanted to circumcise. It made me sick to my stomach. Wasn’t saying no once ENOUGH? They shouldn’t even ask you at all. It shouldn’t be legal, but since it is you should have to go out of your way to get it done.
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Ruth Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 1:38 pm (Quote)
I totally agree! I think that it’s ridiculous to have to refuse circ half a dozen times in the hospital.
After the case where the Miami baby got circ’ed by accident, there is consideration about legislation to ban circ from hospitals altogether. (having parents schedule it as an out patient procedure if they want it, rather than having it done in hospital)
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FGM only removes the external clitoris (if that- most are just the prepuce), and both combined don’t have the amount of nerves of the male foreskin. So yeah, actually, unless you’re talking about the relatively rare infibulation (which corresponds to the equally rare but still practiced) bifurcation of the penis), it’s a decent analogy.
Circ’d penises- if ‘working’ is defined as ‘being able to breed, I guess they work- but funny how countries with all the penises having keratinized tissue (that is supposed to be a mucus membrane) buy all the Viagra. (If those are your standards, women who are infibulated ARE unsewn to breed as well.) But since most FGM (sunat) is removal of the (relatively nerveless compared to men), & the majority of the clitoris is an internal organ untouched by ANY circumcision (which is why female proponents of FGM insist that they still have sexual pleasure), let’s compare apples to apples, shall we?
(Getting so tired of people who have no education- or worse, *bad* education- spouting forth on the subject about how FGM is SO much worse. ‘A little learning is a dangerous thing.’ Alexander Pope)
They are both human rights violations when perpetrated on the uninformed, misinformed (i.e., lied to, like African men), unconsenting, & minors. Period.
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Susan Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 4:16 pm (Quote)
(Can I proofread that, lol? Proceed as if I hadn’t typed it with my nose, please.)
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Marissa Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 5:26 pm (Quote)
I suspect a lot of the FGM proponents don’t have to rely on external stimulus for orgasm though. For some women, internal is sufficient, but for some of us, it just doesn’t get the job done. Pressing up against my husband is sufficient at times, but minus the external stimulus, the internal experience just doesn’t do it; it is much too sensitive. Anyway, had someone removed any part of the external part of my clitoris, I would not be able to experience an orgasm because of the sensitivity issue. I imagine different men also experience these things differently too, circed or not.
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I see no reason victims of FGM (you only get the tag ‘survivor’ in my book, if you overcome your Stockholm Syndrome) should lie less about sexual satisfaction than many of my friends in the sexual revolution of the late 70s, when it was expected that any woman who wasn’t ‘repressed’ had hundreds of orgasms from vaginal intercourse alone. (Some admitted later they’d never come with a man before, period!)
And crazy women like that one on Youtube, in a culture that derides the external clitoris as ‘disgusting’ & only accepts female sexuality in the context of what her husband is willing to do to her with his penis, have all the more reason to fudge it.
That said, if I lost my external clitoris, I’d be trying to get off any way I could; & I have no doubt that many women (just from build up of sexual tension! Hell, I can orgasm just driving a bumpy road if it’s been long enough, even if it’s not a great one lol) ‘get off’ in some fashion, even after mutilation. (
They don’t know the difference between what they are feeling & intact sex anymore than circ’d men do. Black & white vision in 2-D, vs Technicolor 3-D with Sensurround ).
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 3:37 pm (Quote)
The clitoris involves a huge network of nerves that extend well into the vagina and rectum. It’s why some women get off on birth, even if the birthing was a painful one. It’s also why episiotomy is so horrible. An episiotomy can cause permanent damage to the clitoral nerve endings.
This is also why women who were subjected to ritual mutilation – even the severe, “Pharaonic” kind – are capable of orgasm. It just won’t be the same mind blowing experience the rest of us are familiar with.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch had this to say,
Jan 12, 2011 @ 3:32 pm (Quote)
Morbid curiosity, and I wish I hadn’t. I will never get the screams of pain, the helpless struggles of that defenseless baby boy, and the inhuman detachment and callousness out of my mind. This is the stuff nightmares are made of.
No other country routinely amputates the prepuce (aka the foreskin) and claims asinine, insultingly mind-numbing medical excuses for why this atrocity is a good thing. Prevents urinary tract infections/HIV/HPV… a few generations ago it was said to prevent insanity, mental retardation, and blindness that resulted from masturbation. Come on, I’m not that stupid.
And if it’s that traumatic for a son to look different from his father, let the father have an artificial foreskin attached so that he looks like his son. Anaesthesia is optional. A little EMLA, some sugar on the tongue, maybe a local are all he’ll need. He’ll be fine. He probably won’t remember a thing, and he’ll thank you later.
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I’m not circumcising future sons. Why? I am not interested in performing an unnecessary, irreversible surgery (with no net benefit) on my children.
For the sake of argument, we’ll say that foreskins aren’t that important, the penis isn’t all that sensitive and there aren’t any major drawbacks to circumcision.
But circumcision is still: unnecessary (almost always), irreversible (essentially) and has no net health benefit.
So… Why?
The burden of proof is not on “Why not?” but “Why?”
Let’s say instead of cutting the penis, we were cutting off the earlobe, as if we were all Dobermans or Boxers. In that case, any sort of permanent disability is unlikely to occur, healing will not usually be the world’s worst ordeal, etc. It’s still surgery and there can be significant complications from any surgery in a newborn with low immunity, but okay.
But why?
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Yeah, why’d you go and do a stupid thing like educating yourself? Sheesh… makes it so much harder to bully you.
:headdesk:
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