Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Aug
29
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“…There’s Nothing Down There They Haven’t Seen Before.”
“What are you so worried about, there’s nothing down there they haven’t seen before.” – OB wanting to invite students to watch a birth, during the pushing phase, after the mother had already said no.
There are 37 comments to this post.
“Yeah, but I can guarantee they’ve never seen MINE before, and it’s going to stay that way.”
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Dreamy Reply:
September 2nd, 2010 at 1:29 pm (Quote)
Took the words right out of my mouth– and I model nude (for art schools) for a living!
Of course, in a way, that’s made me MORE aware of context. Standing naked in front of a class– no problem. Leaving the door open so other (albeit art) students can peek in? Absolutely no effing way.
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If they’ve seen it all before, then they DON’T NEED TO SEE MINE! For crying out loud!
The mom’s pushing–she shouldn’t have to defend herself!
BTW, I always say “no” to the medical student question after a nurse practitioner turned into a complete bitch the moment the student came into the room, as if she felt the need to show off in front of the student. Never again. (I also never saw that NP again afterward, and I told the pediatricians she worked with.)
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……I’m speechless.
It’s her body. And she said no. More than once. Which part of the word ‘no’ is so hard to understand?
How did this “genius” make it through med school?!?
I wish docs would chime in here, to explain why *this* is ok, too.
Good golly.
Now I’m nauseous.
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Mama Wears Combat Boots had this to say,
Aug 29, 2010 @ 7:23 pm (Quote)
I am so glad I also said “NO” when my doc asked if a student could witness my birth. No, thank you, this is my first birth, and I don’t need any more extra people! OBs, take some tips from midwives, who always have you meet with their students a couple of times before asking if they can attend the birth.
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Petra Reply:
August 30th, 2010 at 8:18 am (Quote)
Actually, my MW asked if a student could attend my son’s birth when we arrived at the birth center. I’d never met the student before. I don’t remember replying (I was a little pre-occupied!), but my husband says I okayed it. She was WONDERFUL. I wish I’d had a chance to thank her. She will be a terrific MW.
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When will people realize that most humor is not appropriate when a woman is working at giving birth. Unless you know the woman REALLY well – skip the jokes. You just come off as an ass.
Also, if they’ve seen it, they don’t need to be there.
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JulietsButterfly had this to say,
Aug 30, 2010 @ 5:06 am (Quote)
I wouldn’t want random students watching me have my first baby. That would have ruined it.
Now, should someone ask now, after I’ve had two, I might say yes.,.if only so they can see it done without an epidural and out of the trapped beetle position. Other than that, I see no reason to have people watch my birth unless they’re my OB, attending L&D nurses and family/friends that I request for support.
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Perhaps mothers/patients would be more willing to let med student(s) in if 1) there weren’t so many at one time, (2) they weren’t taking notes while observing, and 3) the mother/patient had met the student(s) before the birth (or procedure if not giving birth).
I wouldn’t want a half a dozen new people watching me give birth. Two students that I had met before would probably be acceptable.
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oh no awful!!!
I was told something similar when I requested no medical students at the delivery. I had a resident deliver the baby, but that’s different…
I was so happy when the doctor who had told me that initially went off shift and I had the nice doctor who said “of course” starting the new one 
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Students need to learn, and I had no problem with the student midwife being at my last birth, but I had met her before and she was present for my entire labor. I absolutely would not want 10 (or even three) strangers to just come in to watch me push. And frankly, they would learn more if they met patients before labor and delivery and were present for more of the process.
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Honeybee Reply:
August 30th, 2010 at 8:45 pm (Quote)
I agree that students need to learn. And watching a birth (natural or no) is a good experience for them. However, it’s the mothers right to choose who can witness the birth of her baby or babies. One (or possibly two) students who’ve met the mother and possibly been there during prior appointments is better than a group of students. But it’s still her right to say no, and doctors need to respect that. My mom got off the bed, in labor, and shoved a group of students out the door when she was having me. “If your dad’s not gonna see it, neither are they.”
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K had this to say,
Aug 30, 2010 @ 11:07 am (Quote)
It’s common for nursing and physician preceptors to ask a mom who said “no” once, again once she’s pushing. It’s in hopes that she will be so distracted and out of it that she won’t care who’s in the room anymore. Pretty underhanded if you ask me, but that’s how teaching hospitals are.
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I agree that they need to learn.. but I also agree that in order to learn they need to meet the client a few times. Even for my son’s hypospadia/chordee surgery I met the man that would be observing the surgery. He made sure to introduce himself at every appointment and say “Everyone will take good care of him.” the day of the surgery. Its a little abrasive to just thrust that question at mom while she’s distracted, in some pain, concentrating and experiencing something very personal. No the first time means no. Even most children understand that concept.
And wouldn’t it be beneficial for them to learn labor as well? Not just the actual delivery process? I suppose I only saw my doctor twice during that process, but especially for those of us that birth unmedicated and with alternative pushing positions, pain relief etc its important for them to see that.
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Jane Reply:
August 30th, 2010 at 2:43 pm (Quote)
But really, once they’re obstetricians, how often will they see a patient laboring? We have machines to do that now. *eyeroll*
Er…I mean, yeah, the students/residents should be the ones with the moms, helping them during labor and learning what helps, what doesn’t, what’s normal, and what’s not.
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CCindy Reply:
August 31st, 2010 at 6:32 am (Quote)
Students should be required to labor sit. What else have they got to do. I feel it is totally useless for them to show up for the birth. Make them sit there for 12-40 hours and experience the real thing. Let them learn something.
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Melissa Reply:
August 31st, 2010 at 6:51 am (Quote)
Now that is a FANTASTIC idea. Assign residents the job of staying with patients, listening and watching as women decide how to cope with contractions, observing the normal course of birth, offering to help her move around, massage her back, etc. (Though they’d have to be told, at least initially, that they’re not in charge, but there to learn.) They would learn SO MUCH and gain an entirely new outlook on the birth process. They’d either run screaming because it was too much for them or spend the rest of their lives respecting and encouraging women in childbirth.
In one generation of med students we’d have a whole new OB world. That would be awesome. And don’t most folks go into medicine in the first place because they want to help people?
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Well, if it’s SO not a big deal, doc, why don’t you take off your pants and show them your business?
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Aron Reply:
August 30th, 2010 at 4:37 pm (Quote)
That’s exactly what I was thinking, “I’ll let them see me naked as soon as you strip down and attend my birth naked – after all, they’ve seen it all before.” No? Hhmm, interesting.
Oh, and I’m a nursing student. Patients have every right to decide who sees them and who doesn’t. This falls under the category of “duh”.
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No means no. The OB should not have pushed it when clearly, the mom wanted no students there. I actually said “yes” for 2 reasons. 1) I’m an educator, and 2) I wanted someone in medical or nursing school to SEE an unmedicated birth. As it turned out, no med students, but there were a gaggle of very quiet, stunned nurses/nursing students….one thanked me later and said she had never seen one, ever.
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prochoice doula Reply:
August 30th, 2010 at 8:24 pm (Quote)
@Dee… EXACTLY! i would maybe be happy to allow a student to attend (i want a home birth anyway, heh), but if this woman said no, that’s a no. the women’s hospital near my house is a teaching hospital, so women are always getting asked… and by the way, who else thinks they should ask women this IN ADVANCE. like, in the birth plan. “If there are medical students around, I would be happy to allow several to observe,” etc. But with a clear statement that consent could be revoked at any time. but oh, i dream!
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Its a little abrasive to just thrust that question at mom while she’s distracted, i
That one of their tactics. Let me ask the laboring mother 900 questions and shove papers at her and have 14 people talk to her at once. Thats how they get you to do whatever they want… It happened to me (even though I specifically said NO one but my nurse and Midwife who I saw twice the whole time I was in the hospital Tues-Sun btw) Oh well 
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Newsflash, doctor:
It’s not about their comfort (“there’s nothing down there they haven’t seen before!”), it’s about MINE.
Why on earth would I care if a vulva/cervix/vagina were not “new” to them? The important thing is that this birth is new–and special–to me, and I’m the one that gets to decide who gets to witness it. (Let alone decide who views or touches my body!)
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch had this to say,
Aug 31, 2010 @ 1:17 pm (Quote)
Methinks this doctor needs a visit from Sexual Harassment Panda (anyone else here seen that particular South Park episode?)
This is also a doctor I’d want to stay conscious around, rather than getting knocked out for surgery. I have no interest in having a bunch of students do digital/bimanual exams of my pelvis while I’m anaesthetized.
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Up to mom to choose. However, I prefer students over most doctors. When you question the doctor in front of the student, the student usually has some sympathy for you and the doctor doesn’t tend to act as much like an obvious jerk when in front of the student. :p
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prochoice doula Reply:
September 1st, 2010 at 5:55 am (Quote)
Absolutely… at the most recent birth I attended, all docs present were residents (the OB attending didn’t make it and the baby came super fast!), and they were gorgeous. While I questioned the need for THREE residents, all three of these women were young, kind, understanding, completely supportive of Mom’s wishes (including delayed cord clamping!), and gave her incredible amounts of praise after the birth for doing it all without intervention. Hopefully they won’t change and we’ll see new outlooks in these younger generations?
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Sara Reply:
September 1st, 2010 at 6:07 am (Quote)
I was delivered by a resident. The doctor never made it b/c I was precip. The nurses were HORRID. The resident that delivered my son was nice enough (other than following the RN’s directive to deliver the placenta immediately and clamp the cord immediately against my wishes). She put my son on my belly immediately, which I loved b/c I didn’t get that with my older son. For that, I forgive everything else. :p (Like the RN that was yelling at me that I was being ridiculous because I was pushing instead of taking deep breaths for baby. The really funny thing is that she was yelling that at me while I had my eyes closed. And I’m deaf. :p)
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StaudtCJ Reply:
September 2nd, 2010 at 1:44 pm (Quote)
While being deaf is often a disadvantage in the outside world, I think being able to shut out the world by closing one’s eyes would be something I’d love to be able to choose to do.
Back on topic: It just goes to show you that women truly do not get individualized care. Shouting push, don’t push, or anything else at a deaf person (I’m sure she knew you were deaf, and if not, she wasn’t paying attention) is an exercise in futility whether they can see you or not. Lipreading doesn’t have volume. That nurse must be so used to attempting to cow birthing women by shouting that she does it to everyone for her own perverse reasons.
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My doc didn’t even ASK. He just brought in a class of about 20 interns to watch the birth after I had to hold my son in for 15 minutes because the doc was in another birth. I opened my eyes and rather than seeing my beautiful little boy, I saw an audience. It was violating.
My second was a home birth.
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It’s been yonks since I delivered my children, but the doctor only asked me if the students could watch when I delivered the second one. He gave me complete privacy (or as near complete as is possible under the circumstances) for my first delivery. And he did ASK, not tell me, and I said “of course”. As was pointed out before, the students have to learn, and I think the doctors are more careful to do things right when they are showing others HOW to do it.
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Dear doctor,
No means no. It still means no, five minutes later.
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