Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Aug
21
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“Well, How Do You Like Natural Birth?”
“Well, how do you like natural birth?” – L&D Nurse to mother who experienced every intervention possible during her induction, but birthed without an epidural.
There are 30 comments to this post.
I’m wondering if the nurse wasn’t being mean as much as she ACTUALLY THOUGHT that a vaginal birth without an epidural qualifies as a low-intervention birth, no matter what else was done. :-/
According to some reports on this site, they see so few non-medicated births that the presence or absence of an epidural might be some nurses’ barometers.
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poor nurse has no idea what nature is
Well then, I had one too. My birth was intentionally heavy on the interventions, but after a failed induction (hey, we tried) I had a c-section with a failed epi. It was horrible, but at least I can proudly say I had an NCB.
Epilogue – my birth experience sounds bad but it turned out to work to my son’s advantage, and since I didn’t have a nurse like that, I’m happy enough.
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Sadly, the nurse probably did feel this was natural birth, as mom experienced all the sensations. This was very different for this nurse (especially if she is young and has NO idea what it can be like). To her, IVs, monitors, Pitocin, etc are just part of the birth process. Where did we get so off track?
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I’m wondering if this nurse knew OP had been induced? – if she was there all through or after a shift change with a previous nurse? How often it happens I’m not sure, but some things are left out of the files – first nurse having not written it ['though one would think they'd not leave out "induced with ..."]; I know for me they left out some stuff – second L&D [nice and much better & if she'd been there first - would have been a whole lot different] had to deal with the first nurse’s muck-up without knowing what really went wrong.
So, that’s what I’d like to know.
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hallie Reply:
August 21st, 2010 at 9:36 pm (Quote)
this thought scares me, just for the fact that having worked in Nursing homes and a children’s hospital i see how things work. The nurses ALWAYS give report to the oncoming nurse. Even when a patient is coming from somewhere else, be it another facility or another unit, or just from shift to shift. You always give a detailed report…medical history, events up to last few days, events today, how patient is now, and anything that needs to be passed on. I would hope a nurse wouldn’t be this clueless about a patient’s birth…
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Louise S Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 5:37 am (Quote)
Very scary, especially when it happens.
I know the first nurse for me didn’t give a detailed report [that she didn't pay any attention to how uncomfortable I was - didn't even know for that reason; that she was paying more attention to teaching the intern how to use the monitor]. What she *did* write down was that I wanted no epidural/anesthesia “at this time” [should *not* have added that], cervix dilation and that baby’s heartrate dropped to [pretty low] while they were setting up the monitor – didn’t even realize ’til they’d *finally* managed to set it up [for the first bit]. *Then*, they were more detailed – except no mention of a few other things not realized [also attributable to the first nurse's lack of attention]. Never asked how I’d been before I’d gone in [probably because of the dumb obstetrician I saw who didn't have much respect for me in the first place & thought I'd just take his advice on his say-so - I know now, if they say to get up on the bed so they can check on baby, not a good idea; + for another reason, labouring on a bed for me is totally not a good idea - lack of appropriate support for an arm that can't go straight 8-S].
Yes, the next nurse got a report – but not one that would clue them in to why. If the second nurse had said something like that comment, I think I’d have not liked her either, but she didn’t. She called it a “difficult labour” when she came to see us before we were discharged a week later [for something that could only have been caused by the first bits of idiocy].
So, that’s *why* I’d like to know.
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Mama Wrench Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 6:19 am (Quote)
I cannot TELL you how many times this would happen to me. Every single time there was a shift change I’d have to go through the whole song and dance: “I’m not a dependant, I’m active duty, my husband is the dependant. My son will not be circumcized. Pain is XX, still haven’t pooped. Previous bilirubin levels were XX.” Etc. Again, they were asking ME this. Makes me wonder what, if anything, they actually turn over at the end of their shifts — much less what’s written down.
Unfortunately though, I’d be willing to bet hard money that this nurse simply believes that any birth that doesn’t involve getting sliced open is natural, and probably believes that the kind of “natural” that true normal-birthers advocate is akin to foraging the forest for herbs, squatting our kids out in a river while we howl at the moon and sing hymns to Gaia as we sew our placenta-bears.
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Louise S Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 7:59 am (Quote)
ah, ok – sucky.
I bet you could find out – by asking to see your file? [at least for the writing aspect]. Patient advocate got mine out to go over with us; when she asked about my having a ‘natural birth’, I told her ‘I wouldn’t call it natural’ and ‘as natural as it could have been given… [their actions].” For me, this is 4.5-5 months later & finally being dealt with. And yeah, that certainly seems to be a pretty common belief -> “if it’s not C-section it’s ‘natural’” – including p.a. who used to be an L&D nurse. 8-S
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Alyson Miers had this to say,
Aug 21, 2010 @ 5:21 pm (Quote)
This remark might have come from a mean-spirited attitude from this nurse but she also might have been totally sincere and curious. I notice that different people have really different ideas for what makes a natural childbirth. For some, it means a totally non-medicalized birth experience, preferably at home. For others, any vaginal birth is a natural one. The nurse might have thought it was perfectly reasonable to call this woman’s birth a natural one, and was sincerely interested to hear her answer.
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Sadly, birth has become so medicalized that many people consider any vaginal birth to be natural one. “Oh, I had a natural birth with an epidural.” They consider all these bells and whistles such an integral part of the birth process that it’s not considered to take away from the naturalness of it. Either that or they’re just terrified of the word VAGINA.
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My first thought was , this mom was obviously hurt and possibly angered by the nurse’e comment. I was thinking too bad this mom didn’t feel strong enough to say something back. It’s horrible how so many moms are not treated right in the most vunerable and sensitive times of their lives. I have spoken with women in their 80′s and they always remember EVERYTHING that was said or done to them in labor.
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I’m kind of wondering if she was serious and not trying to be snotty. Not that it was a good comment, just meaning that, like a few other said.. she thinks going without the epi means natural birth despite 100 other interventions. I think that’s how most people looked at my situation despite having pitocin simply because I didn’t get an epidural.
I hope she wasn’t being snotty, because that certainly wasn’t what Momma needed at that point. A simple “You did a good job, not many people can do that without an epidural.” would have sufficed.
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Quick question, I had a vaginal birth at the hospital, no epidural, no IV, no medication, etc. They did try to hook me up to monitor, but I was so far along, and the baby so far descended that they never got a good heart read. She did have her cord cut immediately due to a lot meconium in the fluid. We were separated for about 15 minutes while they suctioned her lungs (right next to me).
Would this be considered a natural childbirth? Or not because there was a monitor involved and it took place in the hospital.
When asked to describe my birth experience I usually say I had a physiological or un-medicated birth.
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Jane Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 10:39 am (Quote)
I don’t think it’s a pissing contest, is the first thing. It’s not really something to argue because, as is often mentiond on this site, you don’t actually get a medal. 
I think the difference between a natural childbirth and a high-tech childbirth is whether the natural work of the mother’s laboring body is ASSISTED, or whether it’s REPLACED. An IV with fluids and antibiotics doesn’t (to me) mean the birth wasn’t “natural” because it doesn’t stop the mother from drinking and it doesn’t replace her immune system.
But pitocin to restart a labor that has stopped is replacing the mother’s biological system to some extent. If the mother is knocked out and the baby is extracted with forceps, the mother’s pushing is replaced with the doctor’s pulling.
Cord cutting is just something they do after the birth to the baby, as with suctioning and I don’t think that would affect the definition of birth. If a woman were to theoretically birth unmedicated at home with a midwife and then carefully lay her baby inside a rocket ship where he was then flown off to Mars to be raised by robots, the birth itself would still be considered “natural.” 
(Not that I recommend this.)
So a monitor: a high-tech version of eyes and hands and easily reversible.
I count my 4th baby’s birth as “natural” even though I had AROM at 10cm just before pushing him out. Some might not. It’s not a hard rule.
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Claire Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 9:39 pm (Quote)
I’d have to disagree about one piece of your reasoning above (though I concur with most of it)and that has to do with Meaghan’s description of having her baby’s cord cut immediately after birth because of the meconium in the fluid. A natural (and safer) birth would have involved *not* cutting the cord immediately in order to continue the supply of oxygen to the baby through the placenta/cord, which would have readied the lungs for breathing *while* baby is being suctioned. Somewhere on the web there is a story of a baby with meconium so thick it was the consistency of toothpaste that took a loooong time to remove and if the cord had not been left intact the baby would have at least had significant brain damage from hypoxia, if it had not actually died. Immediately cord-clamping has not been a good idea from day one, there is no research to support it and it could be dangerous. So it is absolutely un-natural to cut and clamp the cord before baby has established breathing.
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Claire Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:21 am (Quote)
Good article on early cord clamping right here:
http://atlaschiro.com/great_stuff/how_cord_clamp_injures_your_babies_brain/
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Louise S Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:33 am (Quote)
Claire, |
I think I’m going to need that link. HIE – wish I’d screamed ‘no’ when they said to cut the cord [at least their asking my husband if he wanted to cut it gave a little more time], like I was thinking – instead, it got cut, and our boy had a seizure a few hours later 8-S [HIE diagnosis]
So, I’m glad you posted it.
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doulamommy Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 1:19 pm (Quote)
I can’t believe they even asked. Usually they just do it anyway. At this birth, they requested not to cut the cord, so the OB just CLAMPED IT instead. I guess in the strictest sense of the word, she did what they asked. :::headdesk:::
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sara Reply:
August 24th, 2010 at 8:34 am (Quote)
That’s a great article! My sister and I were preemie twins born at 31 weeks and my parents were court-ordered to give us blood transfusions after we were born. Since learning about delaying cord clamping I can’t help but wonder if all of that could have been avoided by not using ICC. The chances of that happening in 1982 are really low, but it just shows how much doctors really don’t know sometimes..
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Wendy Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 2:20 pm (Quote)
We all have different definitions. To me, natural childbirth means allowing the process to ensue without using drugs to screw with it–e.g. pit or epidural anesthesia. The definition can be as narrow as epidural-free and as broad as hospital-free. I let each mom decide how to define it. Honestly, the issue is one of giving women ACCURATE information and the right to informed consent and refusal. Apart from that, I really don’t care how women choose to have their babies.
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doulamommy had this to say,
Aug 23, 2010 @ 1:16 pm (Quote)
In this case the nurse meant that the birth was without an epidural. But considering all the routine interventions they pulled on her, explicitly against her consent, it’s a wonder she made it without an epidural at all. They did give her narcotics twice, again without even asking first, so that’s probably how. She was so out of it by the end that I’m not sure she even realized what was said or even that they had given her an episiotomy. But I sure was offended.
This hospital does 5000 births a year, and given how routinely they just… DID STUFF, I bet this nurse really has never seen a physiologically normal birth. Mostly I felt sorry for her ignorance. They clearly have no idea how women can birth out of a bed, or without an episiotomy, or even without full-throttle Pit.
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What a mean bitch!
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