Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Jul
13
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“…How Are You Planning To Manage Without An Epidural?”
“And how are you planning to manage without an epidural? You won’t manage without it.” -A partner of the regular OB, meeting the mother for the first time at 40 weeks.
There are 70 comments to this post.
beccaisadoula had this to say,
Jul 13, 2010 @ 4:47 am (Quote)
This one wouldn’t have been that bad if he left off the second sentence. It’s a legit concern for a doctor to want to know about pain management plan, but he doesn’t need to think his is the only plan.
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sad and irritating. more sad though because the doctor may never have seen someone “manage” without one. One of the docs at my practice was like that and when he heard about my unmedicated labor he said, “I didn’t know they still did that”.
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The Deranged Housewife Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 5:56 am (Quote)
Definitely. I find that the saddest, almost most horrifying thing of all – that doctors and nurses rarely see an unmedicated birth. Un freaking real.
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faedemere Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 7:02 am (Quote)
My 26 hour unmedicated (very low intervention) birth of my son was such a rare thing, that nearly the whole floor of OBs, residents, and students were in attendance at some point or another to “see the crazy woman using hypnosis for labor pain”
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 5:31 pm (Quote)
Oh, boy. Lots of strangers walking in and out just to get a gander. I bet THAT was really helpful for maintaining your focus.
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faedemere Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 7:35 pm (Quote)
I honestly didn’t mind. I was so far into my own mind with the hypnosis that I really didn’t get a good look at who was in the room until after my son was in my arms! In retrospect I was actually pretty psyched I help so many people see what a truly natural birth looks like.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 15th, 2010 at 10:20 am (Quote)
WOW. I am impressed.
Mind you, I’ve been told that I’m not a great hypnotic subject – apparently I’m not very suggestible, perhaps because I’m very literal-minded, and while I have a great imagination that is good for visualizing things, I’m also easily distracted by external stimuli, which is why I get grumpy when I’m interrupted in the middle of writing, or other projects I’m deeply involved in. Hypnobirth is definitely one of the more interesting and effective methods out there, from what I’ve read, but I probably wouldn’t be a good candidate.
I’m glad you were able to show some members of the establishment that there is another way. 
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The Deranged Housewife Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 6:17 pm (Quote)
That explains why there were so many people in the room for my VBAC, then. I had my eyes closed through about 90 percent of it, but my husband said there were quite a few nurses and at least one midwife plus a student nurse (who promptly declared she needed to sit down because she didn’t feel well LOL). But…the doctor was off doing a c-section. I felt like that other woman was the sacrificial lamb for me that day so I could deliver my baby with the midwife. 
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Rebecca Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 9:04 am (Quote)
My son’s birth was similar. The L&D ward wasn’t very busy so the nurse asked (God love her, she asked me!) if she could bring the nursing students in because they may not see this again. I said, of course and after I pushed out my 10 lber, they all clapped! LOL.
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Kayla Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 7:46 am (Quote)
You’re right! Honestly, I think its because no one encourages women to have unmedicated births. I remember telling everyone I wasn’t going to have a medicated birth, but my doctors, nurses, friends, family, husband and everyone else said, “I don’t think you can take it, you have a low pain tolerance” and so that terrified me of labor and contractions and ended up getting and epidural. Hindsight is always 20/20, and looking back I regret the epidural and wish I would’ve stuck with my instincts. This sight has been soooo helpful and enlightening. There are a lot of empowering women on here and I am definitely planning an unmedicated birth next pregnancy. (I may even go with a midwife!)
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JulietsButterfly had this to say,
Jul 13, 2010 @ 5:37 am (Quote)
How about the same way I managed with my first birth? Yeah, you know, not everyone is lucky enough to show up to the hospital at a 4 or 5 and labor around for a few hours, get an epidural and then have the baby. There are women like me, who, first go round, show up at the hospital at a 7 going on 8 and don’t even get asked if they want an epi because things are going so fast that even an IV narcotic won’t take effect fast enough to offer mom “relief”. I still call BS that pitocin contractions (with my second) are any worse without an epi than regular contractions. The only difference between the two was I didn’t tear with my second and I think that was because I was a more experienced pusher.
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Kat Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 6:04 am (Quote)
“I still call BS that pitocin contractions (with my second) are any worse without an epi than regular contractions.”
There are many factors that can affect how a pitocin induced labor is experienced by the laboring mother.
The dose of pitocin used, her body’s “readiness” for labor, how much stress she is feeling, and how her body’s unique chemistry reacts to the pitocin.
I have given birth 6 times total. One time with pitocin and epidural, one time with an unwanted, unnecessary dose of demerol (without obtaining my consent), and no drugs for the others. I find that for my own labors, and the way my body interacts with pitocin, I’d do anything possible to avoid it unless it’s an honest to goodness life-threatening emergency.
I have spoken with so many other women who had similar experiences that it leads me to believe people with “easy” labors on pitocin are unusual, and the typical experience of pitocin-induced labor is what I had. Transition level contractions with no break even at 3-4 cm dilation, excruciating pain with no relief between contractions.
My second labor was 5 hours start to finish, and I went from 5cm to complete in 30 minutes or less. That was very intense, but nowhere NEAR as horrific as being at 3cm on pitocin and unable to get relief.
So while *for you* pitocin contractions may not be experienced as more painful than contractions without pitocin, many many other women who have experienced both found that for them it IS a lot worse!
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Cmat Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 6:46 am (Quote)
“I find that for my own labors, and the way my body interacts with pitocin, I’d do anything possible to avoid it unless it’s an honest to goodness life-threatening emergency.”
Oh my goodness, ditto. The contractions were brutal in comparison with non-pitocin contractions.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 10:27 am (Quote)
I can’t remember if it’s Dr Marsden Wagner or Dr Michel Odent who stated that pitocin induction/augmentation without pain relief (narcotic, regional anaesthesia, or both) could legitimately be called a form of torture.
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Tiffany Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 9:49 pm (Quote)
Honestly, I think it depends on the person. I will say that I have never gone into labor on my own (pitocin-induced both times). I had no problem with pain management either time, but again, I was only in labor for 8 1/2 hours with my first and 5 hours with my second. Then again, I don’t take tylenol for a headache, either, so pain doesn’t affect me as much as it does other people.
I don’t say that to sound as though I’m superwoman – just that it depends on the person. Like I said, I have nothing to compare it to, so it could have been really rough compared to what a “normal” labor would have been, but I guess I’ll never know. 
P.S. Since I’m sure someone will ask, I was induced with my first because I was an idiot and gave in to my doctor’s pressure of “she’ll be too big” because I had borderline GD. My second, I had just spent a week in the hospital with kidney and bladder infections (had a catheter for 5 1/2 days). I was trying to avoid a c-section, actually, but I really was trying to avoid the same scenario that sent me to the hospital the first time around at 34 weeks.
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Serene Reply:
July 19th, 2010 at 6:09 am (Quote)
Cool! Self inflicted torture in my case!
LMAO sorry that was my first reaction. I have had 2 pitocin inductions – baby 2 and baby 3 – one because of family reasons (my hubbie being shipped off to Iraq a week before my EDD so I asked to be induced so he could meet his daughter in case anything happened), and one because of severe thyrotoxicity that was straining my heart. My first, entirely natural labour, was the bad one. The pit labours were easy! No, I didnt take pain relief with number 2 at all. Number 3 I had only a single morphine shot because of the pelvic pain I had due to pubic symphisis dysfunction (OUCH!). Give me pit any day!
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Kylie Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 7:07 am (Quote)
ITA! I had wanted to go natural with my second after a bad epidural experience with my first, but had to be induced (because my husband was going out of town – never again, he can miss it next time! LOL!) and those pitocin contractions killed me. Seriously, it was brutal. Although, had I not consented to the internal monitors I wouldn’t have been stuck in bed and may have managed a lot better. They played the baby distress card. *sigh* and I thought I went in there so prepared.
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Lauren Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 8:29 am (Quote)
It really does depend. I planned a UBAC for my second, then caved and went to the hospital after 2 days of prodromal and 2 days active. I knew I was stuck at 5 cm for over 24 hours since I had checked. It was very discouraging, and nothing I did helped. 
We got there and had a fabulous dr though, and after 8 hours with barely a 1 cm change, she offered the lowest dose of pit there was. I knew that I’d been in labor so long my body was tiring out; in fact my contractions felt the same to me but were happening further and further apart and showing up as weaker and weaker on the intermittent EFM. So I agreed; thankfully it was an augmentation as opposed to an induction, safety wise. After just a couple low doses (we stopped at 8 units), my contractions were back stronger and closer together, but felt the same to me. My daughter moved down after being at -1 for a long time, and I progressed and was able to push her out once the OB massaged my cervical scarring that had stalled me in the first place. My points are that I never once needed or wanted an epidural , didn’t see a huge difference in pit contractions (I do know I was lucky that way!), and that it was ironic to me to need such intervention….since my cervical scar tissue was a result of manual dilation during my C-section. Ugh.
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Heather Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 11:29 am (Quote)
Yeah, I had pit augmentation during my first labor after I stalled for 5 hours or so and I didn’t notice a difference, either. Not while the machine was operating correctly. When the saline drip malfunctioned, I most definitely noticed a difference (well, while I was conscious), but that was a malfunction, so it doesn’t really count.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 5:39 pm (Quote)
It just occurred to me that JulietsButterfly was comparing a pit induction to a very precipitous labour. In her case, there probably wasn’t much difference. My labour pattern seems to be walking around in prodrome for a couple of weeks, with labour signs that might be early labour and might just be things that are normal for me (cramps and loose bowels? meh, I have IBS). Followed by active labour kicking in with a vengeance, and the only thing I can do is hold on for dear life and let my body take over.
It feels like being stabbed repeatedly in the lower abdomen by Jack the Ripper.
Mind you, I would rather do this at home with a minumum of assistance or company than go to a hospital even if pain relief DID work on fast labours like mine (I am told it doesn’t), because I find loss of control and the attentions of strangers to be more unbearable than mere physical pain. It’s a matter of priorities.
There are women who have precipitous labours who find them painless, but I think they probably are the same sorts of women who like cervical stimulation or at least don’t find it painful, whereas with my sensitive cervix (I cry in pain if sex is too deep too early), rapid cervical dilation is bound to be agonizing. But hey, it’s over with in short order, so no biggie.
I can see how a precipitous labour can be compared to Pitocin without any sort of pain relief.
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Jane Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 6:36 pm (Quote)
Emily was a pitocin/cytotec induction and I went from zero to baby in 60 minutes.
Kiddo#2 was a precipitous labor, zero to baby in 82 minutes.
The pitocin labor was harder. I went into the full-focus mode right at the start and I couldn’t break out of that between contractions, which seemed to come atop one another.
The precipitous labor eased off between contractions and although I had to focus hard during contractions, the labor itself was darn near painless. It was only when I was in transition that I began to have trouble coping. Whereas I spent the majority of the time during my pitocin labor squatting and staring into the eyes of the midwife, breathing with her and squeezing her hands to cope with the contractions.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 15th, 2010 at 10:23 am (Quote)
Pitocin AND Cytotec? Holy crow.
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Heather Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 7:14 pm (Quote)
I have had a 22 1/2 hour labor and a 23 1/2 hour labor. The first was the one I talked about with the pit that didn’t feel any different to me from the labor–which was easy as pie, never once felt the need for any pain relief. I’d had prodromal labor for 4 weeks with that birth (started around 38 weeks).
I didn’t feel the pit in the second because I had an epidural before the pitocin (that precipitous labor you’re describing? yeah, have that go on for 8 hours straight after 9 hours of regular labor, 7 hours the day before and prodromal labor for a couple weeks beforehand–full transition the whole 8 hours and no progress–or else I’d have never had one).
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JulietsButterfly Reply:
July 15th, 2010 at 2:06 pm (Quote)
Yup. My first labor was hard and fast, but the natural endorphins made me forget about anything that hurt very quickly! Well, except for the stitches where I tore a little.
My second labor had the pit start at a low level around 3pm. I had them keep the level as low as possible until I felt it needed to go up. I think they turned it up twice. But right around the same time that natural labor started with my first, things kicked into gear with my second. It had been over an hour since they’d turned up the pit too. I think my body just likes to push them out as fast as possible from around 11pm-3am. Go fig right
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 15th, 2010 at 4:07 pm (Quote)
My body likes to turn on the oxytocin flood on the half hour, every half hour when I’m nursing. Probably when I’m in labour, too, in retrospect.
The rest of the time, I don’t seem to make much, at least, if oxytocin is the touchy-feely warm-fuzzy want-to-be-with-people all-you-need-is-love hormone.
But when I’m having a baby or feeding the baby I’ve just had, I’m as regular as clockwork. It’s kind of funny, if you think about it.
Whereas your comment makes me wonder if circadian rhythms can be involved. Somebody should do a study.
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Kathy Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 7:08 am (Quote)
Amen amen and amen! My pitocin contractions were non stop, with no break, so intense and unbelievable. I remember frantically asking my husband how long the contraction was cause I needed a break, and he said four and a half minutes so far…. I had them check me cause i wanted to have the satisfaction of knowing all of this unstopping and excruciating pain was getting me somewhere and i was FOUR CENTIMETERS. I had to get an epidural to be able to have the strength to push him out. I’m glad now that I did, because it was another five hours before I started pushing. I would not have made it. I will do ANYTHING to never have pitocin again.
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The Deranged Housewife Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 6:22 pm (Quote)
Although I’ve never been induced, from what I’ve read and heard from others it sounds like the dosage is key here. If you haven’t experienced the “Pitocin pain” that many have, it could be from a high pain tolerance, or it could have been that you lucked out to have one of the last OB’s in America who didn’t start you out on triple the dose.
*A bit of an exaggeration but really, not that much of one when you think about it and look at the dosing guidelines that comes in the package insert.
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Was this a first time mom or an experienced mom? If he had said this to a mom who had done it before and was confident in her abilities then “pull up and chair and watch, but keep your mouth shut and your hand to yourself!” If it was a first time mom. “Please get the other doctor in here and I never want to see your sorry face again!”
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GAMZu Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 11:04 am (Quote)
It was my second birth.
During my first pregnancy, my OB was in a practice by herself. She messed up my birth so badly. I had a Cervadil suppository that confined me to bed. It fell out when I used the bathroom, but no one believed me so they freaked when my labor stopped and put me on a mega dose of Pitocin. I looked like a knitting project, what with two monitor wires, and oxygen mask, an IV… the pain was worse than I ever imagined and lasted 24 hours. And I still didn’t take an epidural.
By my 2nd birth I had already learned that the horror I experienced was because of the interventions, and not a typical labor. I had made up my mind to avoid as many interventions as possible.
At one of my last appointments, I met this medical “professional.” After going through my birth plan, she said the above to me.
I was SO angry!
I told her, “You don’t even know my history! Do you know anything about my first birth?” And she replied, “Yes, Dr. M. told me about it. That’s why I’m telling you you won’t manage without an epidural.”
I wonder what my main doctor told her… probably that I was a mess and looked to be on the brink of death. And instead of removing the cause, she was belittling me, as if the whole horror of the awful first labor was my fault for not taking the epidural.
In happier news, I labored at home the 2nd time around, going in just to deliver. And lucky baby #3 was born in the same bed that she still sleeps in almost two years later!
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Jane, I agree — the doc meant “I can’t manage your labor if you have an epidural”.
As for Pit contractions, I think one factor is that there is no gradual increase in ctx, so the body’s ability to produce endorphins is seriously compromised. Thus, no pain killer, much more pain.
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Nicole Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 8:29 am (Quote)
Well, there CAN be a gradual increase, if it’s done right. There was for me. But pitocin doesn’t cross the blood-brain barrier. Essentially it works in your body without your brain’s concent or recognition. THAT’S why you can’t produce endorphins the same way, your brain has no idea what’s going on in your uterus.
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Evelyn Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 11:05 am (Quote)
When my doctor wanted to induce me (at 40 weeks 5 days, not in labor, not dilated, first time mom, which meant my risk of failed induction was about 50%), I was very hesitant. He asked why, and I explained that I didn’t want pitocin because of the hard contractions, and how it doesn’t cross the blood-brain barrier. He told me that was false, that pitocin is exactly like oxytocin. Made me (and still makes me!) want to scream!
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Nicole Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 11:59 am (Quote)
I’m pretty sure that no synthetic substance can exactly mimic the body’s natural hormones. Duh. Just the fact that there are PRESERVATIVES in pitocin should be a clue that it’s not “exactly like oxytocin”. What a moron!
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the Deranged Housewife Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 6:28 pm (Quote)
Cheeks and I (Hi, Cheeks!) were in an argument (not with each other LOL) about this over on SOB’s blog. One poster insisted they were the same – I don’t know much about chemistry, but when you take something that’s made from YOUR own body and compare it with something that comes from an animal, that doesn’t sound quite the same. While chemically it might be, I’m sure the mechanism is quite different. As in, your doctor cannot force you to produce more oxytocin but rather can hang a pillow-sized bag of Pit LOL and fill you to the brim with the stuff. I think Cheeks finally said of course it’s different, otherwise there would be no increased risk of uterine rupture when using it in VBACs if it were *really* the same. When doctors want to scare us with u/r rates, do we really know how many have been augmented with Pitocin and how many haven’t? Umm…that’s *kind of* important.
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i had a pit induced delivery with no epidural. One of the nurses told me i was insane…. my doc said “leave her alone she’s superwoman” LOL I thought that was quite a stretch but it was sweet.
Epidurals scare the crap out of me, i informed the doc (we’d never met until that day) that i had no plans on getting one… he was stunned and said “i never hear this, are you serious?” .
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Kat Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 9:38 am (Quote)
Ha ha! One time my husband was in a tattoo place just looking (he never has gone through with getting any ink) and I mentioned after giving birth a few times without meds if I ever got a tattoo it would probably be no big deal. The guy got this really shocked look on his face and asked me if I just “liked pain” or something. I shrugged and said “Not really, it’s just not THAT bad.”
But then my mother birthed all of her kids without drugs, and while I was aware it was hard work, I didn’t fear it as some kind of torture/worst pain possible, etc. as some young women are taught to believe.
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Cmat Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 9:48 am (Quote)
Jennifer- epidurals scare the crap out of me too. I don’t like the idea of being numbed and not being able to feel the sensations. I also don’t like needles or the idea of anything being done to my back with a needle. At least with blood draws I can watch and know what’s happening 
.
Kat- I agree. It is hard work, yeah it hurts.. but its not torture. I was told by a lady at work (and I’ve heard it several times since) that while it is pain, its pain with a purpose and rewards.
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Jane Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 9:52 am (Quote)
I have needle issues and I can’t even stand the thought of putting a needle in my spine.
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sara Reply:
July 15th, 2010 at 8:36 am (Quote)
yep, same here. No way I was letting anyone put needles in me when I was in labor- I have vasovagal syncope, so passing out would not be good unless I wanted to be that “christmas miracle” mom from last year who “died” when they put in her epidural and then “came back to life” when they ripped the baby out…
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Jennifer Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 10:51 am (Quote)
i have MAJOR needle issues, and there was no way on earth i was getting an epidural. I’ve heard enough horror stories about them that i had no intention of getting it done.
I labored sitting on a ball, sitting on the toilet, by BFF rubbed my back for 8 straight of the 25 hours (back labor), i moaned with my head on my mom’s chest, i did what i needed to do.
Then the doc called in the OB b/c we were running a risk of a section and i was begging to avoid it, she stuck the vaccum on and out sarah came face up and not breathing. (she was fine just being a brat and holding her breath).
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CCindy Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 9:58 am (Quote)
I get kidney stones. And everytime I go to the hospital somebody tells me that kidney stones hurt worse than childbirth. Once they told me it/they were in the top 3 along with gun shot. Well the truth is they only hurt if they get stuck. If they pass on through only bumping and scraping along the sides of my ureter I feel twinges. If they flow out not scraping anything I feel nothing. If they block the flow of urine my kidney gets very upset and I start vomitting. I don’t even think it is a matter of high pain tolerance, but my point in writing this it the best way to pass small stones is to drink and walk. Great recommendation for childbirth as well, more the walking than the drinking. But if you lay there curled up in pain the pain is only going to get worse. And it will be 5x worse if you are afraid. If you do the work to move things along you get relief.
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Evelyn Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 11:10 am (Quote)
“But if you lay there curled up in pain the pain is only going to get worse. And it will be 5x worse if you are afraid. If you do the work to move things along you get relief.”
THANK YOU! I am glad you posted this, it is just what I needed to read. I had a very difficult, long labor, and on reflection, I think that I made it more difficult for myself because I didn’t move around that much. The pain became too much and I became afraid of having contractions too painful and too close together. I am determined next time will be different.
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Heather Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 11:34 am (Quote)
That happened to me, too. Only I’d tried it all and my contractions still kept piggybacking. I wish I’d had a doula there to help me through it–I think that was my biggest mistake with my last birth. I wanted a UBAC, though, and it just wasn’t happening, so I didn’t get a doula, because I didn’t figure any would come in MO to a UBAC.
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Rebecca Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 1:03 pm (Quote)
seriously agree that there is pain much worse than labor. haven’t had kidney stones but I did have a really serious case of E.coli poisoning and it was 100x worse than my unmedicated transition from 4 to 9 in 30 minutes contractions. I think that it was so much worse because a)I wasn’t ready for it since I hadn’t been anticipating food poisoning like I had labor and b)it wasn’t pain with a purpose. (well, ok there was a purpose but not with as great a purpose as eventually getting to hold a baby in my arms)
I really think that so much of the intense unbearable pain that women talk about is created by fear and feeling of not being in control. That’s a whole nother thread..or maybe a blog…
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CCindy Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 1:15 pm (Quote)
I wasn’t anticipating my first kidneystone either . I was in so much pain I thought I was going to die. It was only 1 year after my 3rd c-section. I thought I had some nasty side effect that was going to kill me for sure. A few hours later when they told me it was only a kidneystone and I was indeed going to live I felt much better. Of course, I’m pretty sure I was drugged by then. But my mind was eased by the news.
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Dee Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 5:13 pm (Quote)
I had my first kidney stone ever in Jan. (4 mm–not large, but not really small, either). It hurt very much–roughly the same, maybe slightly more, than childbirth. I did a lot of the same stuff while I waited around to see someone at the ER–standing and rocking, bending and squatting, deep breathing, etc., and it genuinely did help. Was told I’d pass it in 72 hours with drinking plenty of water–35 days later + another ER trip + urologic consult, drinking 2 gallons a day, I got it out on my own. The very nice resident was stunned in an impressed way. She couldn’t believe I’d been willing to wait instead of leaping to surgery with the basket thingie. “I was willing to do about anything to avoid the surgery,” I told her. She said that was awesome!
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Lauren Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 6:17 am (Quote)
Those hurt!! I had a kidney stone at 32 weeks with my second child; never had one before so I was in a heap on the floor from the pain. As bad as it was, I think the gallstone attacks that hit beginning when she was 2 weeks old were WAY worse. That garbage put my C-section and near-weeklong VBAC labor to shame! I suffered for 3 months, trying everything possible to avoid surgery, then gave up and had it removed. I’m glad though, since I’m doing well now!
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 10:36 am (Quote)
I agree with the superwoman comment.
And I like to think of myself as a tough cookie. You’re tougher than I am…
And it’s awesome that you were given the choice of whether to get an epidural or not. If only more medical professionals would understand that choices in pregnancy, labour, and birth should not be optional, save in dire, life-threatening emergency situations when every second counts… which are far more rare than the average medical professional would believe.
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Jennifer Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 10:53 am (Quote)
thank you Sarah, i appreciate your kind words.
As much as i love the doc that delivered my sarah, i’m going with a midwife next time… there was too much that happened in the delivery room that wouldn’t have happened if i’d had a midwife.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 5:51 pm (Quote)
No arguments from this corner.
BTW, I find my migraines to be far more unbearable than my labours, even though my labours are hard, fast, and hurt a lot. The poster above who had e.coli is being fairly accurate – my second daughter was premature because of a bad case of gastroenteritis (we THINK it was viral, but it could have been bacterial for all we know) and I had no idea I was in labour. I thought the gut cramps were from barfing and diarrhoea. My husband said his made him whimper too, and he’s not exactly a wimp himself – he has a ludicrously high pain tolerance.
Oh, and he says that for severe pain, nothing beats getting snapped by a bungee cord in the eye. He’s had cluster headaches that hurt less.
I can’t argue with that one.
Someone else was mentioning kidney stones – they’re much, much more painful for men to pass than women, due to plumbing issues. They might be right up there with precipitous labour or pitocin induction sans pain meds. Or slightly worse. I think getting a baby at the end of the experience is a lot more fun that getting a kidney stone, though.
Or poop. I’ve told people that a severe IBS attack can be like labour, only you’re expected to do it at home (instead of being called brave or crazy for opting to do it at home), you never get offered an epidural (as opposed to nearly having an epidural shoved into you forcibly if you’re in a hospital setting), and at the end of it, you don’t get a baby, you get poop. Lots of poop. And gas. Whoopee. Anyone who has had to contend with IBS or Crohn’s can do natural childbirth, IMO…
Anyway, I still think you’re more badass than I am. Pitocin scares me.
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Rebecca Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 6:30 am (Quote)
“I’ve told people that a severe IBS attack can be like labour”
completely agreed. I wished for an epidural when I was having my E.coli bout that was complicated by IBS. I think my husband knew it was bad when I got up at 3 am and drove myself to the ER in my robe and slippers because I couldn’t bend over to take off my pj shorts.
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The doctor’s question is a fair one, particularly if this is somebody wanting to learn more about natural childbirth. The comment was uncalled for.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 5:54 pm (Quote)
The phrasing of the doctor’s question was biased and belittling. S/he could simply have asked, “What sort of pain relief methods would you be interested in, if needed? Epidurals are the most common, followed by narcotics, but there are other options out there. Have you given this any thought?”
No free pass for the doctor.
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Gamzu Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 7:49 pm (Quote)
She said this in response to my birth plan that was right in front of her. Which said that I want no epidural. Her tone was also haughty… She wasn’t saying it for an informative discussion.
Although it think what Wendy meant is that the question (how will you manage?) can be viewed in a positive light, while the comment (you will not) was uncalled for.
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I say just have your baby at home with yourself and husband only. No one was there when you MADE the baby why should anyone need to be there when he/she is born??? LOL…can’t imagine what a rucus i’ve just created! LOL LOL (i’ve done it already ladies..and it was one of the most amazing experiences, loved every minute)
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Hmm… I don’t think my doc got the memo. Hubby mentioned I wanted a natural birth and he started suggesting intermittent monitoring and hep lock so I could walk the halls of the hospital if I wanted to. Was that intended to be reverse psychology?? ^_^
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch had this to say,
Jul 15, 2010 @ 4:09 pm (Quote)
FYI – the banner advert for this thread is from the Laser/Spine Institute, advertising relief of back pain.
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i just wonder how much of this seeming “hate” of epidurals or doctor interaction is safe for the baby? i understand having the right to choose your own birthing plan, but why does it always seem that the moms who choose to have an epi are wrong, or weak?
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StaudtCJ Reply:
July 16th, 2010 at 4:38 pm (Quote)
The moms who choose epidurals and the moms that end up with epidurals are not wrong or weak. The nurses and doctors that push epidurals on women who have said they don’t want them, the people who denigrate moms for not wanting to put medicine in their bodies, and the ones that claim that no woman can do it without an epi and do their best to undermine any other thing are the ones that are wrong. They’re the ones that are weak, because they are to feeble to conceive of anyone liking or wanting to do things in any way other than the hospital normal. I don’t think that anywhere on this site will you find anyone saying that women who want or get epidurals are weak or wrong.
You are either reading things from somewhere else, have trouble understanding what this site is all about,or have an agenda.
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Jane Reply:
July 16th, 2010 at 5:01 pm (Quote)
The majority of the commenters on this site are women who want other women to experience the birth they want and the birth their babies deserve to have. There’s nothing wrong with preferring a more medical model of birth and high-tech pain relief, the same way there’s nothing wrong with preferring natural pain-relieving methods and birthing in an upright position.
The majority of women on this site who say epidurals are wrong are saying THEIR epidural was wrong for them, that they caved when the hospital staff kept forcing it on them even though they’d made it clear an epidural was unwanted and/or unnecessary in their situation.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 16th, 2010 at 6:20 pm (Quote)
First of all, we don’t hate doctors universally. We love them – when they’re bailing us out of a real obstetric emergency, which is what they are trained to do in the first place. If I am starting to haemorrhage from a placental abruption or my baby is showing signs of distress and a prolapsed cord, I want abdominal surgery, not a natural childbirth. I’m not stupid.
What we hate is the medical micromanagement of birth that stems from the current view that ALL births are emergencies waiting to happen until proven otherwise.
We also hate the god complex and the insensitivity that obstetricians frequently develop, the control-freak tendencies, the total unwillingness to even look at actual evidence when it is presented.
Other birth professionals such as midwives, nurses, lactation consultants, doulas, birth educators, etc earn our contempt when they show these same tendencies. And they do. Yes, sometimes even the midwives and doulas, who one would expect to know better.
Regarding the epidural: YMMV. Personally I think epidurals outside of surgery or unusual emergency situations are a ridiculous idea. Birthing pain is something we’ve been able to handle for thousands of years – millions, if you count other branches of the evolutionary tree, such as homo erectus, homo habilis, and homo sapiens neanderthalensis. I’m sure some of the time we made use of whatever drug we could concoct from poppies or mandrake juice or whatever, but I’m equally sure that a lot of the time we just put on our big girl pants (pants? in labour? maybe not the best analogy, but you can see what I’m getting at) and dealt with the pain as it came. Or didn’t, as birth is not always painful.
Yes, there’s a little bit of a mommy war going on regarding whether or not one decides to go for an epidural, just as other aspects of labour and birth have sparked mommy wars. As long as we continue to see ourselves as invested in the cultural war by defining ourselves as mothers and living through our relationships and our mommy-related experiences rather than through things that are less dependent on motherhood, we will use aspects of mothering as litmus tests and split up into factions just like the insecure, catty middle schoolers we still are on some level, and we will continue to bolster our sagging egos and pent-up ambitions by putting down anybody who made choices that were different from the ones we made.
I am not immune. On the visceral level, I tend to scoff at the epidural opters. Sure, I can rattle off things like “cascade of interventions,” “hospital routines that get in the way,” “high risk of unnecessary surgery,” “hospitals are germy places,” “birth pain is not unbearable if you know how to use it,” “haven’t these people even heard of hydrotherapy or doula support,” etc. But on the gut level where my brain is not involved and I make my decisions strictly on emotion and knee jerk, I’m thinking, “Wimps.” Thus establishing myself as superior, because after all, I am tougher than Jack Bauer and Chuck Norris and James Bond combined, right?
And I’m getting judged too.
It’s not nice, but it’s human nature.
In the abstract, I believe that every mother has the right to determine the circumstances of pregnancy and birth: if she will get pregnant, and when; who will give her care during pregnancy and birth; where she will give birth, and how (assuming an emergency such as the aforementioned placental abruption does not happen, which fortunately, it rarely does); how the baby will be cared for after it is born. Whether or not to get an epidural is part of the package. In the abstract, I see it as an absolute right. In the abstract, I see elective “too posh to push” Caesarean sections (the much-hyped maternal-request kind, which are also statistically anomalous) as the mother’s absolute right.
In practice, I think it’s really stupid.
But so what? I’m not having your baby. I’m having mine.
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“I love living in a country where everyone can have an opinion. Can I have my regular doctor back now?”
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