Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Jul
7
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“…I Don’t Do Delayed Cord Clamping Because I Don’t Want To Hand You A Dead Baby…”
“Well I don’t do delayed cord clamping because I don’t want to hand you a dead baby, you know when it’s pumping in it’s also pumping out and it will drain the baby of blood.” -OB while going over a birth plan with a mother prenatally.
There are 128 comments to this post.
Not my submission, but I’ve heard this from more than one OB. I can’t help but wonder where they get their information.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:03 am (Quote)
Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey Clown College?
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:07 am (Quote)
Let’s see if my comment actually shows up this time. On the count of three: one, two…
My hypothesis: Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey Clown College.
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Karen Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:18 am (Quote)
As a graduate of Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey Clown College in ’94 I would have to say the class load did not include any in obstetrics.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 8th, 2010 at 7:40 am (Quote)
Wow, an actual graduate? I hadn’t expected to find one with my comment. I hope you didn’t take offense. I hear it’s extremely competitive getting in there, if that’s your field.
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Robin had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 5:55 am (Quote)
This bothers me so much. My son wasnt breathing at birth and needed oxygen and CPR. He wasnt breathing for a few minutes. If it wasnt for his UNCLAMPED cord, he’d be dead. Or, at the very least he’d have brain damage now.
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Umm Abdullah Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 9:38 am (Quote)
Same here. If my son’s cord had been clamped immediately, he probably would have ended up with brain damage. His cord was left intact until the pediatric team was assembled and prepared to suction the liquid from his lungs. I’m grateful that my MW had the sense to keep the cord intact, though I’m regretful in that I feel like she caused the issue to happen in the first place, by breaking my water.
I had an OB earlier in pregnancy who did tell me a similar thing about baby losing the blood. Oh my, what DO they teach in med school? It certainly makes me think differently about docs!
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Brittany G. had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 5:58 am (Quote)
Not my submission either, but I was told something similar but a the time hadn’t done enough research so I knew I couldn’t back myself up and let it go. The rationale I was given was this: if you delay clamping, you have to hold the baby and the cord level until it stops pulsating because higher or lower can cause anemia or jaundice, respectively. It made enough sense I guess, especially when I hadn’t completed researching it.
So anyone who has researched and can point me to it that proves this OB wrong, I would be very grateful!
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CCindy Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 6:21 am (Quote)
Do any of them take a moment to even look at birth in the animal kingdom? I don’t ever recall seeing an animal with a cord clamp.
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Mama Mirage Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:13 am (Quote)
Goats give birth laying down. As soon as the kid is out the doe bends around and licks off it’s face and when it’s breathing she stands up so she can turn around and lick the rest of the baby off. When she stands up the cord is stretched to the point of breaking between them. No clamps, scissors, or bleeding to death required.
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Kate, Ren's Mom Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 7:13 am (Quote)
Brittany, if you look up ‘umbilical cord’ on wikipedia, there’s a section on early vs. delayed clamping with links to several scientific studies like this one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17374818
From what I saw, most if the studies show an overall benefit to delayed clamping. And none of them seemed to mention the concept of blood itself draining away.
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Heather Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 8:59 am (Quote)
And if you google “delayed cord clamping”, you’ll find tons of info, on everything to do with the issue, up to and including “lotus birth”, where the cord is never clamped at all, they just carry the placenta around with the baby till the cord falls off naturally–and those babies do just fine. (although we decided it’s not our cup of tea)
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Mama Mirage Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:09 am (Quote)
I’ve thought about that but just can’t bring myself to do it! Lol! Even though since my babies’ cords have fallen off at 4 days I’d probably be a good candidate for that. Can you imagine if someone did that and it took 6 weeks to fall off? It would start to smell interesting that’s for sure. Personally I think once it’s crispy it’s not doing any good so why leave it on that long? That’s just my opinion though and I have no real reason why someone shouldn’t do it if that’s what they want, just that if I were to do it I would only leave the placenta attached until the cord was dry. To me it would seem pointless after that.
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Katherine Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 11:40 am (Quote)
I think they put the placenta in a bag with herbs to combat the smell 
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Mama Mirage Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 12:09 pm (Quote)
Yeah I had heard that but I was thinking that if I can smell the yeast in my Amish Friendship Bread through the sealed ziplock baggie, the smell of rotting placenta would likely be pretty hard to cover up, bag or no bag.
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Kate Reply:
July 18th, 2010 at 12:22 am (Quote)
First post ever!, I did lotus birth with all my babies, heavily salted the placenta, wrapped it up in an absorbent sheet (like those ones you get in hospital for bedwetting) and then put it in a cloth bag, wrapped the bag up with the new born so no one could tell ( Dad just thought all my kids were really heavy!) my eldest’s cord took 6 days, and the next two kids 3 days to fall off. Changed the sheet every day, smelt a bit at that point, not too bad because of the salt. Buried the placenta under the tree in the back yard! I am making a doco on home birth at the moment and had the wonderful experience of interviewing Michel Odent whose main area of research is the effects and necessity of natural oxytocin release during labour. He believes it is critical not to cut the cord until the placenta is delivered naturally due to the hormone exchange that occurs between 2nd and 3rd stage, he says oxytocin is the love hormone. He believes that as 50 years ago people thought colostrum was useless and now we know it is so important, that soon the scientific evidence will change practice of cutting the cord due to the discovery of the vital blood and hormone exchange for mother and baby, and the benefits of health and bonding.
check out our trailer if you are interested
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFWH_IZWulE
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kate Reply:
July 18th, 2010 at 12:25 am (Quote)
and there is a short clip of Michel on our face book page as well as sheila kitzinger
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Face-of-Birth/107238485974636?ref=ts
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Claire Reply:
September 11th, 2010 at 2:48 pm (Quote)
Gloria Lemay wrote a piece for mothers who want it all: a lotus birth and an encapsulated placenta–pretty simple, really, the placenta gets carried around in a thermal bag with cold packs–a mini freezer, so it stays fresh till the cord falls off, then the placenta can be encapsulated:
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Kate, Ren's Mom Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 12:27 pm (Quote)
My midwife told me that, in general, home-birth babies’ cords tend to fall off MUCH earlier that hospital babies’ because the natural bacteria is allowed to work. As opposed to hospital babies, who are often subjected to all kinds of antibiotics and cleanliness measures. It’s a generalization, but it makes sense. I’m guessing that most people who choose a lotus birth also refrain from abx and don’t compulsively bathe the baby, so the cord comes off soon, as it was designed to do.
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Mama Mirage Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 5:27 pm (Quote)
Hmmm that does make sense. My sister’s first was born in a hospital and they kept sterilizing the cord with alcohol and stuff and it took FOREVER to come off and got infected. Her second son, born in a birthing center with midwives, had no cord problems and it fell off pretty fast. My babies were both born in a birthing center with midwives and had no funky cleaning routines or antibiotics or vaccines or vitamins or anything put into their system upon their entrance into the world. They were given baths at home by me, cord and all (yeah I don’t buy the don’t get the cord wet myth- I don’t purposely submerge it but I do wash around it and splash water over the cord area to rinse), and both came off between 3 and 4 days old. No alcohol was used on the cords and I washed my babies with organic castile soap. So I think your midwife is probably onto something there.
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CrunchySarah Reply:
July 11th, 2010 at 4:55 pm (Quote)
My third child (born at home, delayed cord clamping and cutting until after the placenta was delivered) had an umbilical stump that took two weeks to fall off. We knew lotus birth wasn’t our thing (after all, no animal carries around the placenta, it is usually eaten), and can’t imagine the smell if that had been our choice! We didn’t use anything on his stump until 10 days old, when we started cleaning around the base with a bit of witch hazel and colloidal silver.
My other two children were born at home, and had their cords fall off around 10 days. All three of my kids have very thick cords, so that may be part of it.
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Serene Reply:
July 19th, 2010 at 6:56 am (Quote)
my second baby (who is now 8.5 years old) still has part of her umbilical cord in her navel. The stump got caught on a loose thread inside her singlet and was pulled off day 2, except for a very small piece of it about 1cm across. The doc tried colloidal silver to get it to come off, but its still there!
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Rose Reply:
September 10th, 2010 at 8:43 am (Quote)
My midwife was telling me this week that the dye / stuff the hospital puts on the umbilical cord makes it stay on longer. You know the purple dye? I can’t remember what it’s called, but she says most baby’s cords fall off around 3-6 days in her practice. She doesn’t use dye or anything.
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The Deranged Housewife had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 6:04 am (Quote)
“Yeah, you know the book Bunnicula, about the vampire bunny? Something like that. The baby’s entire blood supply will drain from his body in less than one minute.”
*sigh*
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Sheva had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 6:33 am (Quote)
Ok. The baby’s blood and the mother’s blood don’t mix. The benys blood goes through the cord tithe placenta, where it passes by the mother’s blood and exchanges its waste and CO2 for nutrients and oxygen from the mother’s blood. The exchange takes place through cappilary walls. So. Baby can’t lose any blood until you cut the cord. Then, any blood that was still in the placenta at the time of birth can’t get to the baby, and is lost. That’s when the baby can suffer from blood loss, early cord clamping. Once the cord stops pulsing, all the blood, or the vast majority of it, is in the baby.
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Yep…my body is designed to sacrifice itself for the entire gestational period in order to support the fetus if necessary. But once that baby is out, BAM, if she’s not separated immediately she’ll die.
Also, let’s not forget that the placenta is the fetus’s organ, not the mother’s. So, of course, part of the fetus is going to completely suck the blood out of her in order to kill her. Right…
As for the comments of “you have to make sure to hold the baby above/below or else not enough/too blood will get to the fetus…” Really? You head is routinely higher than your heart, unless you’re hanging upside down, and somehow we don’t all die from hypoxia. Vascular tissue is not just a gravity fed tube; it has muscle tissue, valves, etc. to keep the blood flowing the way it’s supposed to.
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MidwifeMommy Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:08 am (Quote)
I love this very logical explanation! (It actually uses real scientific words like “vascular” and not scare tactic words like “dead baby”!)
Add this point… according to some doc’s logic of a gravity fed vascular system, our feet should be swollen with the weight of all our blood volume!!
The placenta and its cord acts like a pump, continuously delivering blood to the baby until the placenta has nearly emptied and due to lack of oxygenated blood, at which time the vessels in the cord shrivel and are no longer functional. (Those veins and arteries in the cord have the same safety features that our vessels do- one way valves!!!)
AAAAND…. extra blood volume and its potential resulting hyperbilirubinemia can be treated if necessary (we over treat jaundice anyway), but you can’t UN-DO a lack of oxygenated blood. Give the babies what is rightfully theirs!!!
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Cynthia Reply:
July 8th, 2010 at 5:50 am (Quote)
I may be way off here, but this explanation makes me wonder if early clamping could result in trouble delivering the placenta, due to extra blood in there causing it to not get them message that it’s purpose is served. Not that they give you time to deliver the placenta in hospital anyway.
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Meghan Reply:
July 8th, 2010 at 4:33 pm (Quote)
Interesting idea. I tried looking up some studies, but came up empty handed. There’s not a lot of research on placenta birth (which is not surprising).
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StaudtCJ Reply:
July 8th, 2010 at 7:07 pm (Quote)
I’m not surprised at this either. Getting studies done on female things that don’t directly impact males is difficult at best. I can just hear the panel’s voices now: “Aren’t there more important things to study? Besides, can’t they just reach up in there and take it out if it’s taking to long? I mean, OBs are very busy, and their time is valuable! It’s not like you’re researching Boner creation or something!”
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Meghan Reply:
July 9th, 2010 at 7:25 am (Quote)
Hmmm, that wasn’t really what I was implying, but I see your point. Being the scientific research community it can be very difficult to get grant money, and right now there many thousands of research topics waiting to be funded; even within women’s health there are many arguably more important research topics than whether cord clamping/cutting delays placental birth. Also the study would be extremely difficult to conduct (at least on human women) because you cannot just randomly perform an intervention on half and not the other all in the name of research. Yes I realize that some studies do do this, but it’s unethical and overall we are moving away from this type of research.
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Claire Reply:
July 10th, 2010 at 5:53 pm (Quote)
You might have better luck searching on terms like “management of third stage”. For one thing, researchers tend to avoid humanizing words like “birth”. It’d be “delivery” or “extraction”!!
And whether early cord clamping can impair delivery of the placenta because of the remaining blood volume is a very interesting question to ask!
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Kate, Ren's Mom had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 7:02 am (Quote)
Vampire Placenta strikes again!!
Seriously, though, my EMT textbook contains that drivel about keeping the baby even with the placenta until the cord is cut, and the rationale is to keep the blood from draining into/out of the placenta. I heard it in a lecture about childbirth in the field, too. Whatever did we do before modern medicine?
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cheeks023 Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 7:36 am (Quote)
“Whatever did we do before modern medicine?” According to Dr. Amy we all died… Childbirth wasn’t safe before modern medicine! LOL
I think if my OB said this I would laugh heartily and then say “Did you get your degree out of a cereal box? If you still believe this you need to give up your medical degree, go back to school and start again.” What a bonehead.
Now truly, if he had said, I don’t delay clamping because that means I have to hang around longer and I just want to go as soon as possible. It would at least be a reasonable explanation. But to come right out and lie like that?
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:05 am (Quote)
Enough OBs seem to believe that nonsense that I think it’s not always about convenience, or lying to the mother in the interest of expedience. I think we’re looking at a genuine obstetric urban legend.
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cheeks023 Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:18 am (Quote)
hence the go back to school part!
Every other profession requires it’s professionals to keep on top of new research, why is obstetrics so archaic?
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CCindy Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 11:01 am (Quote)
It wouldn’t do any good to go back to school if they learned this little gem from those very same professors!
They should all go to midwife school. Med school is a waste of time.
Not to mention the fact that Med school itself gets every medical student ready for every possible specialty and they don’t really “get into Obsterics” until their residency or is it intership first and then residency?
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Emily had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 7:11 am (Quote)
I heard that EMTs are trained not to cut the cord for a birth outside the hospital
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Lisa Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 9:39 am (Quote)
I had EMTs go to cut the cord when I accidentally birthed my child at home unassisated… I stopped them and asked if my hubby could cut the cord, and they let him. they had the clamps and a knife to cut it in their pack when they came to my house..
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MeriBeth Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 9:44 am (Quote)
this is true. EMTs are not supposed to touch the cord. They are to wrap the mother and baby in an insulated blanket and transport to the hospital. If the placenta is delivered along the way, they are to catch it in a basin and leave it in between the mother’s legs on the gurney for it to be dealt with at the hospital. I know. I am an EMT.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:10 am (Quote)
My husband’s SAS wilderness survival manual says the same thing: don’t cut the cord before it stops pulsing.
It also says to not put the mother on her back but to let her squat or get into a similar upright, comfortable position of her choosing, to avoid depressing the vena cava…
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Mama Mirage Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:18 am (Quote)
I think OBs should read that survival manual. LOL! Might do them some good!
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 6:04 pm (Quote)
Oh, there’s TONS of good stuff in there. How to identify edible and poisonous plants; how to protect oneself against the elements; advanced first aid beyond what you get in a Red Cross certification course; how to predict weather based on clouds and other signs; how to track and trap wild animals, and which ones are edible (including bugs); how to make a water-catcher in the desert…
Really cool stuff. 
Emergency childbirth takes up half a page. Unlike some of the stuff I’ve seen in pamphlets written for laypeople (put the woman on her back on the kitchen table!?!) the information in the survival manual isn’t about getting people to adapt to cultural expectation when there is no hospital present, it’s about actual survival. That seems to make a difference.
Oh, and it’s a very pro-breastfeeding text, too. Breastmilk is, after all, an infant’s survival.
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Heather Reply:
July 20th, 2010 at 1:08 am (Quote)
A little over 10 years ago, as a Basic EMT student, they taught us to immediately clamp and cut the cord, but to leave about 6in from the umbilicus. A few years later as a Paramedic student, the trend changed (thank goodness) to wait at least until the cord stopped pulsating to clamp/cut. And unless something was wrong, to immediately place baby on mom’s belly. We were warned, however, to not raise baby too high or low (you know, the usual thing about too much/not enough blood) Maybe the OBs should start doing some ride time or sit in on an inservice or two…
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This is so dumb. And yes, Emily, in my husband’s emergency medical textbook, it very specifically says to place the baby on the mother’s chest so that baby can maintain its temperature and do absolutely nothing to the cord or placenta- aside from wrapping the placenta in clean newspaper to allow for later inspection. The rationale is that the cord is better left alone because if you don’t cut into it, it cannot introduce bacteria into the baby’s blood stream. To think- this means my husband (a volunteer ski patroller) would be more qualified to help birth a baby according to modern practices than most OBs!
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Sheva had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 7:43 am (Quote)
EMTs are trained to cut the cord immediately, unless we don’t have a sterile obstetric kit, in which vase we’re told to leave it and keep baby and placenta level.
Um…. Once the placenta is out the vessels stopped pulsating, in which case there’s no problem, right?
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Kate Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 3:49 pm (Quote)
Actually, no. The vessels keep on pulsating. I’ve not figured out why, but some cords will keep pulsing for a very long time, and others stop pulsing within a few minutes. What I do now is leave the baby until the cord stops pulsing. Usually the placenta is out long before the cord is cut. I show the placenta still attached to the baby by the cord to parents–most are fascinated to see it.
And I *don’t* worry about keeping the baby and placenta level. The cord has two muscular arteries that pump the blood out of the baby to the placenta, and a vein that drains re-oxygenated blood back into baby from the placenta. If only these docs realized how silly they sound!
I wonder if the EMT protocols are different from state to state. Here in IN they are supposed to clamp and cut immediately. At least where I live they do…
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Heather Reply:
July 20th, 2010 at 1:20 am (Quote)
Indiana went to National Registry, at least as far as the medic cert, but local protocols do vary from county to county and state to state. So we’re taught one thing in school, then have to do things however the medical directors want, lol. As an EMT-B, they taught us to immediately clamp and cut, but by the time I got to medic school they were saying to wait until it stopped pulsating or just leave it alone. Still the caveat about raising baby too high or low though. Do they tell you guys to leave the cord a little long too? Apparently in case they want to do an umbilical IV in the hospital. I never knew you could do that.
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Heather Reply:
July 20th, 2010 at 10:56 am (Quote)
I didn’t know you could, either! WHY didn’t the doctors do that when my daughter had to spend 6 days in the NICU!? The IV never lasted long in one spot–she even had it in her HEAD for awhile! And she did NOT like being stuck!
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Dianna Reply:
October 1st, 2010 at 1:01 pm (Quote)
I am in Alaska and we called the paramedics since my daughter arrived unexpectadly at home. I wanted delayed clamping and they were happy to leave us alone to wait for the placenta and waited to clamp until the placenta was out and cord stopped pulsing. They wanted my dh to cut it on the phone but were ok with waiting when they got there.
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I saw a news article online about a father “saving” his newborn with a hammock. The baby was born precipitously at home and dad was instructed to find a string that could be sterilized so that he could safely tie off the cord. I’m so glad that the 911 call center had that important information available for dad so that he could keep his newborn alive. Blech.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 6:06 pm (Quote)
I saw it and posted it to my Facebook page a week or two ago. Yes, cutting the cord saved the baby’s life! At least according to the Texas newspaper that reported the surprise homebirth.
It boggled my mind.
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This was my submission 
)
In the same conversation this Dr. called himself a “Mid-Man” claiming he let women labor exactly how they wanted to. I did end up using him but “HAD” to be induced, “HAD” to have several interventions, “HAD” to have a c-section because during a “HAD to have” exam he stretched my cervix and my daughter’s cord prolapsed. I also “HAD” to have my c-section without medication because there “wasn’t time”
This Dr is still practicing on many helpless uneducated mothers…God help them and their babies.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:12 am (Quote)
Ugh! What a jerk.
I found out that Angie’s List accepts reviews of doctors now. (Also midwives.) Food for thought…
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Trish Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 1:44 pm (Quote)
What’s Angie’s list? Can you give me a link?
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 6:09 pm (Quote)
Always happy to be of service.
There are other consumer sites where consumers can independently rate their doctors, but Angie’s List is one of the more reputable because they actually do follow-up.
Angie’s List also rates all kinds of other companies and businesses. I’m a big fan.
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CCindy Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 11:08 am (Quote)
Oh Trish C-section with out anesthia. OMG. My husband was actually placenta previa almost 50 years ago and this was discovered during an office exam that resulting in massive bleeding and MIL being taken to the hospital in Dr.’s car. She got anesthia. You should have too. And this damn fool should be out of business. I’m so so sorry.
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Kym Reply:
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:02 pm (Quote)
Prolapsed cord is an EMERGENCY hon. Usually a nurse is riding the bed with the mom, with her hand up mom’s vagina to keep the baby’s circulation from being cut off! And if you “natural” birth moms refuse epidurals/IV placement prior to, there is NO way to give you anesthesia prior to cutting, (You only get a local anesthetic which is basically nothing). Not to mention staff usually doesn’t have time to surgically scrub in. Essentially the doctor gowns/gloves, locally anesthetizes the abdomen, and then cuts while, – yes, the OB nurse is STILL holding the cord up between the mom’s legs. This is to save your baby! You will probably forget the pain afterwards,- either way your baby was saved. It is YOUR fault you had no IV route or epidural to provide anesthesia in time if you refused so on admit as part of your birth plan. Your baby is ALIVE! Placenta previas may or may not have more time (determined by vital signs such as blood pressure, pulse, etc.). Get over yourselves! And by the way, you WILL have an IV afterwards for your antibiotics unless you have a death wish.
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Serene Reply:
August 4th, 2010 at 12:06 am (Quote)
Kym any doctor or anaesthetist worth their qualification can put an emergency IV in in less than a minute. I have very small veins, so the local anaesthetist get their students to practice on me, and THEY can do it in under a minute.
Refusing an epidural? Well Im sorry but apparently I can tolerate pain better than you and do not feel the need to have a catheter placed in my spine “just in case” when an IV cannula placed in an emergency will do just as good a job.
I am one of them girls who has no choice but to have 2 IV’s when I birth, but even then I know very well that if one occludes, I can have another one placed in under a minute.
Oh and your bullsh*t about not having the time to scrub in? Im sorry but I have worked in theatres for years and NEVER have I not had time to scrub in. If that is what is happening in your hospital, I suggest you go elsewhere because its sloppy and dangerous.
My god some of the ignorance and bitchiness on here makes me sick.
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TRISH Reply:
August 4th, 2010 at 5:46 am (Quote)
KIM YOUR A HEARTLESS WITCH I HOPE YOU HAVE A C-SECTION WITHOUT MEDICINE!!!!!!!!!
for your information my Dr. STRETCHED me and the cord fell out…don’t think you should probably stretch that far doc! I know it’s an emergency, I’m not an idoit and I do realize that I did have to have a c-section I didn’t refuse to have one. I also didn’t refuse an epidural, I’d had one put in earlier in the day IT STOPPED WORKING. It worked for about an hour or two but then I started feeling everything again and that’s when the Dr. so kindly decided to “check” (stretch) me before he decided to leave and go to another hospital to deliver another baby. Well hello when the cord prolapsed, there wasn’t time for anything so I was told. I also had an IV – GUESS WHAT…THEY CUT IT OFF. My step-mother was there when it got tangled and they cut it off. They had ME ripping off my blood pressure cuff, oxygen, & pulse ox monitor. They all went nuts. I realize that Dr’s and nurses alike are human beings but it was a mad house at that time and everyone was freaking out. Thanks for all that medical knowledge teaching you to remain calm under pressure and do things MEDICALLY PROPERLY!
YES I went in for a natural birth, but I knew there could be interventions and I was ok with that if necessary, but procedures should still have been followed.
I WANT TO STRESS – YOU WILL NOT FORGET YOUR PAIN AFTERWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You get your guts cut open and try to forget that pain. I wish I could swear, it’s brainless people like you that make me sick. I have had to do to counseling for PTSD. It’s the same thing as a war veteran returning from war. I have flashbacks, I have night sweats, I relife the entire thing over and over again almost nightly. I have anxiety attacks especially when I go to the Dr. or in a hospital. I also had such sever depression about it I couldn’t love or care for my daughter until she was 4 months old…that’s sad and is constant guilt to me, for something that WASN’T MY FAULT!!!!! I DID EVERYTHING THE DR. TOLD ME TO DO. I wanted one thing but I never refused anything the Dr. asked me to do, I followed orders like a “good patient”
But do you want to know the worst part (probably not since you’re so close minded) I don’t know how to tell my Daughter her birth story…what should have been a beautiful day in her life (natural or c-section) is my biggest nightmare.
So you get over yourself until you’ve walked a mile in my shoes or someone like me.
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CCindy Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 6:58 am (Quote)
Trish again I am so so sorry. Kym you are a Witch. If the nurse can hold the baby’s head off the cord for 3 minutes she can hold it off for 4 and get some general going. To hell with the epidural. My MIL was in the Dr.’s office and started bleeding. No IV for an office exam KYM you jackass. And she still got general when she arrived at the hospital and there wasn’t anybody holding anything to prevent whatever. So yes 15 seconds to place an IV (or hook new tubing to the one that they cut) and shove that mask over her face, make adjustments as you go. Trish, I can’t believe they cut your IV, what a piece of work. Talk about Post Tramatic Stress.
I’m not sure what to say to your daughter. When my husband’s family would tell his birth story the focus was always on his dad waiting in the car and not having a clue. That part of the story is actually pretty funny! I don’t think anybody wanted to relive his mom’s part of the story.
To wrap things up KYM take a hick. The women on this board know more about what is and what is not necessary than you will ever hope to know. You need to get out of the L&D ward. Maybe you should be hanging out with patient who are actually sick. None of them as sick as you no doubt!
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CCindy Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 7:05 am (Quote)
Hike, take a freaking hike, get lost, nobody wants to listen to you spew garbage KYM. Trish’s doctor caused the prolase. Caused it! Do you want to look up iatrogenic!!!! Don’t come back unless it is to apology you WITCH
Sorry again Trish. I’m a little pissed right now. The combo of your story and Kym’s rudeness is just too much to take.
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Jane Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 9:53 am (Quote)
Kym, if the doctor knows rupturing the membranes on a floating baby increase the risk of cord prolapse, and the doctor also knows the mother doesn’t have an epidural in place, then the doctor shouldn’t rupture the membranes, no?
Doctors who CAUSE emergencies are at fault. It’s not the mom’s fault for making an informed decision not to have an epidural. It’s the doctor’s fault for not providing decent medical care to the mother.
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Dee Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 1:06 pm (Quote)
OMG, you had NO anesthesia? OK, I am very pro-natural, non-intervention, but if I had to have a c-section, I’m not sure I could do it without anesthetic. Ick….
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Trish Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 1:41 pm (Quote)
The Anesthesiologist was yelling at the Dr. to wait but he was yelling back he didn’t have time. I’m assuming he was scared and hindsite is 20/20 but I’ve been told since I was already at 9cm I could have tried to push her out. She only weighed 4 lbs. 14 oz. so it would have been pretty easy. My first I only did 3 pushes with, so it should have been fairly easy to push her out.
There were SOOOO many things that went wrong with my Daughter’s birth. I have no idea what to even tell her when she starts asking about how she was born.
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Dee Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 1:47 pm (Quote)
Oh, Trish, I am really, really sorry. This guy sounds totally incompetent….and the whole event extremely scary. I am not one to jump to litigation, but considering it sounds like he *caused* the cord prolapse–is it something you might pursue?
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 6:11 pm (Quote)
Refusing anaesthesia for major abdominal surgery in itself would give you cause to both file a malpractice suit and get him in hot water with the state medical board.
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CCindy Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 7:22 am (Quote)
Trish you need to sue and report him to everybody, state medical board, hospital… Heck, I bet event he anathesiogloist would support you. He never wants to be in that position again. Actually I think that is the first person I would call. It will help you work out your PTSD. While I don’t think that it would have been a good idea to try to deliver a 4 lbs. 4 ozs baby vaginally inspite of a prolapsed cord. I DO think the nurse could have continued to hold the baby’s head off the cord for 30-45 mintues if necessary. The nurses arm wouldn’t have fallen asleep. They didn’t have to act like idiots! Hopefully your daughter will never ask. You would be surprised at how easy it is for kids to avoid subjects that upset their parents. Have her dad or your step-mom sit down with her when she is old enough.
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Trish Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 8:09 am (Quote)
I did get a lawyer right after it happened on the advice of the therapist I was seeing. I was in such a state of shock and PTSD, and post partum at that point I never did follow through. I just wanted the nightmare to end, and now I can see that is so selfish of me. He’s still out there and could do this to someone else. I have the Dr. on tape (I taped it just in case) stating that “something went wrong” but nothing more than that. I did get the medical records and it was stated that the Epidural was brought up to surgical levels, even though I was moving my legs and he had nurses hold them down. I know he knew I could feel everything. At one point he even told me to stop screaming…guess it was hurting his ears that the person he was mutilating was screaming. I remember looking at the clock right above my head and thinking, “how ironic that I’m looking at a clock when my time is up” I honestly thought I was going to die.
I am acutally doing pretty good these days. I saw a birth trama specialist and he helped me SOO much. I have a 9 month old (accident child – I did fertility treatments with the other 2 and NEVER planned on going back to get pregnant again because I was so afraid of being cut open again) but when I got pregnant with my youngest I found an amazing high risk Dr. who was incredible. She told me that I was going to do this vaginally and she would help me every step of the way. And she kept her promise I had a successful VBAC 10/31/09 and she even stayed in the room for 45 min. once to hand monitor the baby when she knew I wasn’t ready to have anymore interventions (wanted to place a scalp monitor – but it all started to get overwhelming and similar to my daughter’s birth) so she stopped and said we’re going to take it nice and slow and I’m not going to do anything until you’re ready.
As for my daughter’s birth story – my Doula with my 1st child shared something with me that she does with her own children, every year on their birthdays she tells them the story of their birth. Well I loved that so much and I had such an amazing birth with my son that I did that with him, and I plan on continuing. I just have 2 versions of my daughters and I tell her the one about how I was so happy to have a daughter and excited about all the things we will do together.
Thanks for everyone’s support.
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CCindy Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 8:36 am (Quote)
That is wonderful. So glad you got a nice VBAC not to mention an extra baby! (Those final surprise babies are precious) How old is your middle one? It probably is time to “go after” that other doctor. I was a little confused, was the Dr. who streached you the same one that started the c-section before the anasethia took? You said he left to go to another hospital. I didn’t know if he came running back or what. I can’t imagine one nurse between your legs and two more holding each of your legs down. It must have been a circus. Did the epidural ever take?
You might be interested in a recent story on Cafemom about a newbie nurse who got to be the one to hold the baby’s head during a smiliar birth. It was titled something like “You want me to put my hand where” earlier this week.
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Trish Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 10:24 am (Quote)
I have a 4 1/2 year old son who I did a natural birth with a midwife & doula, turned out wonderful.
I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter that was the prolapse cord & emergency unmedicated c-section
Then the 9 month old baby successful VBAC.
He was going to check me because he wanted to leave to go to another hospital. He put his hands “up there” and said, “I can strech you to a 9…oh no that’s the cord” Looked at the nurse, she got a weird look on her face (I didn’t realize it was an emergency at the time, no one talked to me) and then all of a sudden she yelled out for help and I don’t know how many nurses came into the room. Yes one nurse did get up on the bed with me and held my daughter’s head off the cord, while a couple others got cords off. My step-mother was asking them what was going on and when they cut the IV she asked them why but no one talked to us. As they RAN me down the hall to the c-section we passed by the waiting room with all my family in it. My nephew who was 10 is still horrified and remembers the panic look on everyone’s face, the Dr. yelled out to my Dad, Sister (her family) and my brother and his family, “She’s going to be ok, we’ll be back out in a minute” but that was it. They were all scared and weren’t sure what was happening.
When they finally let my husband into the operating room he said he thought I was dead. No one had told him anything and after my daughter was pulled out they placed a mask on my face and I guess put me under. So when he saw me I was passed out, and he thought I was dead because no one was around me. It was a horrible experience for everyone involved.
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I had to fight the Dr to delay 30 seconds after my son was born, because if he wasn’t breathing he’d need to be resuscitated. I told her if he’s not breathing he needs the cord attached to stay oxygenated. Go fig he cried loud and strong as soon as he hit air (born under the caul) and cried for those 30 seconds (because he’s still attached! You can’t hold him yet!) and then was clamped and cut. Go fig he was the one baby with not a HINT of yellow to him. Delay all the way!
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what a freakin’ load of bunk.
my last baby cord was left alone until it stopped pulsing-a good 10 minutes. He was in my arms within 15 seconds of being born and nursing well before his cord stopped pulsing. oh and I was sitting almost straight up during all of this-he was WELL above the placenta.
what ever happened to ‘evidence based medicine’???
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MidwifeMommy Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 10:15 am (Quote)
Evidence-based medicine is clearly non-existent. Just look in any policy and procedure manual on any Labor and Delivery unit. The practice of Continuous EFM on low risk women is proof of this. But that’s for another thread, another time.
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aguafresca had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 9:47 am (Quote)
My sister (who just finished her pediatric residency last week) told me the same thing when I mentioned my birth plan to her two years ago. After our conversation she actually went and looked up some articles and did report back to me that it appears research shows that it is not harmful to delay cord clamping (which I already knew, but I’m glad she took the time to look it up). But she didn’t seem at all frustrated or outraged at the incorrect information she had been taught in med school/residency. I’d be really ticked off if I were her, but she acted like it wasn’t a big deal that she was taught something completely wrong, especially something so very basic.
The thing that gets me even more is that she’s starting her neonatology fellowship, so obstetric decisions like when to cut the cord directly affect her patients. There is a huge gap in medical education that medical folk just don’t see.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 10:14 am (Quote)
You don’t do delayed cord cutting?
Guess what? I don’t do idiot medical providers. What a coincidence.
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I hate the misconceptions/misinformation about delayed clamping! I wanted to delay with my son and was told I couldn’t; did delay with my daughter, and she was perfect. Didn’t even cry at birth, just latched on straightaway while the placenta was delivered. The cord wasn’t cut until it stopped pulsating. It was fab. Oh, and she wasn’t jaundiced at all, while my son was.
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Herb of Grace had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 11:27 am (Quote)
You know, seriously. How dumb do they think we are?? Is there really any mother out there who actually BELIEVES that the baby’s blood begins to REVERSE FLOW (remember, for nine months it’s been going INTO the baby) and starts to drain back into the placenta the instant the baby’s body pops out?
And by “BELIEVES”, I mean, once she has a chance to THINK about it and doesn’t have an a$$hole dr screaming in her face about dead babies…
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Lyn had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 1:33 pm (Quote)
I delivered my 6th unexpectedly at home. We have a tape of the 911 call where the operator gave instructions for me to keep the baby lower than myself so that the fluids wouldn’t travel back into me. He did say not to touch the cord. I delivered the placenta before paramedics arrived about 6 minutes after she was born. When they got there they cut the cord and put the placenta in a bag between my legs once I got onto the stretcher. I was pretty much in shock because the whole labor and delivery took about 3 minutes. She weighed 8 lbs 10 oz and I caught her myself while standing in my hallway. The paramedics left several unopened kits behind at my house. They were quite flustered that they couldn’t find a hat for her so they went through everything they had ( I suggested we use one of mine…..they seemed surprised that I had one…with her being my 6th and all, right? LOL!) I still have the kits. The included the umbilical clamps and scalpels. I think dome scissors but not sure.
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Claire Reply:
July 10th, 2010 at 2:17 pm (Quote)
And speaking of unnecessary procedures, did you know that hats aren’t necessary either? They are using “Cool-caps” with babies who were deprived of oxygen at birth–and of course, nature doesn’t provide caps for babies, either. Apparently the temperature drop at birth also serves a function.
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Jane Reply:
July 10th, 2010 at 4:43 pm (Quote)
After my second baby died of anencephaly, I put in the birth plan for my third that she was not to be put in a cap because of the visual association. We would provide a hooded blanket.
By the end of the visit, we had about 25 caps in the room because the nurse would come, put one on, I’d take it off and put the hooded blanket back on, and half an hour later the whole cycle would repeat.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 11th, 2010 at 12:47 pm (Quote)
WHY do the nurses insist on those stupid knitted caps as part of routine, anyway? Not one of my daughters liked wearing the cap. They all managed to work it off within minutes of having it put on them, and screamed bloody murder if you tried to put them back on until they turned about two years old. No hats for them.
They didn’t like the tight swaddling either. they were apparently not interested in being burritos.
Admittedly, since Kassandra was born at home and we never took her to a hospital to get her “checked out” (she was healthy, after all, so why would we?) I didn’t try very hard to get her to wear a little baby hat, or to get her to enjoy being swaddled. I tried once as an experiment to see what would happen.
I imagine there are plenty of babies who like hats and swaddling clothes, but none of mine fell into that category. Good thing, too, because they all had cradle cap.
What is the deal with those stupid hats?
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Heather Reply:
July 11th, 2010 at 1:06 pm (Quote)
Hats are to keep babies from losing too much heat. Humans lose heat from their heads faster than any other part of their bodies. I’m guessing that keeping the heads of babies in hospital bassinets in hospital nurseries warm is a good idea. Probably not at all necessary for a baby that is properly with her Mama, where she should be. A baby that has Mama’s body heat probably doesn’t need any clothing really. Other than that, I don’t like hats, myself, so I don’t put them on my babies. My kids wear them for dress-ups, but it hasn’t occurred to them to wear them any other way, unless I push the issue due to cold weather.. My pet peeve is those !@#$ little mittens, though. How is a baby supposed to explore anything if you’re putting mitts on his hands!? If he’s scratching himself, either don’t worry about it unless it’s serious or cut his nails & use a little emery board on them!
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Serene Reply:
August 4th, 2010 at 12:14 am (Quote)
I only ever had one nurse cap my babies, but I had 3 summer babies (in Australia, so VERY hot!), so they kept stripping them down to a sheet and singlet. The day my son was born was 42*C. I had him at 11pm, and it was still 31*. My daughters were both born on similarly hot days too. If they had put caps on them, I think they would have roasted! Only once did any of them get a hat on, and that was only because the nurse insisted “she will get cold” otherwise. Uh yeah. Its 40* outside, not much better INSIDE with the no aircon, and you want to put a hat on her?!?? Crack another one!
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Kit Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 11:36 am (Quote)
I make caps and booties for every baby i know. Its just kinda my way of welcoming them into the family.
Although now I’m really rethinking it, since none of you guys’ kiddos seemed to need them.
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CCindy Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 1:29 pm (Quote)
Keep making the caps. My son had the cutest little cap with teddy bear faces all over it. If you stop making the caps the mothers will think you don’t love them. Even if they don’t wear them, they keep them and years later they say remember when this fit little Johnny? Hand made by a relative caps are good. Hospital issue caps ???
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Sara had this to say,
Jul 7, 2010 @ 2:00 pm (Quote)
We had a very natural hospital birth aided by the fact that she was crowning when we got there and we were able to delay clamping the cord. My family couldn’t believe how fast her cord fell off (within 4 days) and she wasn’t the least jaundiced.
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This–THIS!–is what we childbirth reformers call “playing the dead baby card.” A provider is not playing that card in saying, “Just so you know, some research indicates a X% increase in the following risks…” No, we women are too stupid to handle such an intelligent statement. Pull out the guilt and fear instead. Simplify it to, “Do this or your baby will die, I tell you, DIE!!!”
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Lilly Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 5:27 pm (Quote)
In direct reply to ‘evidence-based medicine’. Seems OBs like to do the thinking for you, and that involves “Do what I want, or I’ll tell you you and your baby are going to DIE”
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Jane Reply:
July 7th, 2010 at 6:28 pm (Quote)
But notice how well this doctor did it. He not only played the dead baby card, but he gave her a graphic image of it in order to involve her senses. Not just, “Your baby will die” but “i will hand you a dead baby.”
That’s very skillful manipulation.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 8th, 2010 at 7:51 am (Quote)
Except when said doctor is dealing with a very stubborn autistic woman who developed a perseveration on pregnancy, birth, and baby-tending after a miserable hospital VBAC.
I’m beginning to see why medical professionals either instantly love me or instantly hate me, with no in between of emotion…
Do the professionals get classes in how to manipulate vulnerable patients, or is it a natural talent, or what? I know that sounds stupid, but my social IQ isn’t much higher than my shoe size, and I really would like to know. For one thing, if the professionals are taught how to play the heartstrings, maybe I could teach courses on how to be obtuse, hard-nosed, and singlemindedly focused on just the facts. Not sure if it would work for every mother, but it might make a useful addition to an overall bag of tricks.
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Jane Reply:
July 8th, 2010 at 8:38 am (Quote)
It’s a natural talent, I think. They try to figure out how to make us comply with their instructions.
I think Asperger’s and HFA gives someone a leg up against emotional manipulation in some ways, but based on my son’s behavior, I think it’s easier to manipulate him if he’s uncertain what the correct course of action is.
The emotional manipulation won’t work on someone who already knows the facts. It ONLY works if you come up against a situation you hadn’t already researched. So the “I don’t want to hand you a dead baby” wouldn’t work with me because I’d look the doctor in the face and say “Do you think I’m totally stupid, or only 75% stupid?” but if someone had only heard that her aunt was told by a nurse that some midwives delay cord clmaping, and she wanted to know about it, the doctor’s ploy would work.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
July 8th, 2010 at 9:22 am (Quote)
“I think Asperger’s and HFA gives someone a leg up against emotional manipulation in some ways, but based on my son’s behavior, I think it’s easier to manipulate him if he’s uncertain what the correct course of action is…”
Well, I certainly wasn’t very proactive about sticking up for myself or my baby during that VBAC I had in the hospital – having never prepared for being rushed to the hospital, alone, eight weeks early, unaware that I was even in labour, let alone that I would have to face certain people and make certain decisions or else they’d be made for me.
So that makes sense. (BTW, I used to be so naive that when I was in sixth grade, my best friend managed to convince me that I had a penis because I looked more like the drawing of the early-pubescent boy in her facts of life book than the early-pubescent girl. Bad artwork, I guess. Anyway, thought I was a hermaphrodite until a boyfriend got me nekkid when I started my senior year in high school. How’s that for naive and gullible and easily manipulated? It’s hilarious to think about now, but it made me quite neurotic as a teenager…)
So do you think a little assertiveness training combined with “these are the facts, if you stick to them and don’t think of anything else it can help bolster you when you are being pressured by a white-coated authority figure” would go over well in a childbirth education class? Do they even teach stuff like this in any of the independent birth classes (obviously the hospital-based ones would avoid such topics like the plague)? I’ve never taken one, so I don’t know. And I am seriously considering being a childbirth educator.
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Serene Reply:
August 4th, 2010 at 12:23 am (Quote)
Oh Sarah, I am glad you can at least look back on those days with your friend and laugh now… I know its cruel of her to do, and kids are very mean. But its good you can laugh about it.
I think alot of it is that medical schools now teach that while we try to educate ourselves, we often gt bad information so they have to push their own opinions to make sure we get the “right” information. Unfortunately not all of it is good practice, but they refuse to change. I was trying to say yesterday about it, but couldnt get it out without being a bitch (BAD pms and an idiot husband). What I was trying to say is that they are very stubborn about it because its what they honestly believe, whether it be right or wrong. Unfortunately no amount of us complaining about it will change it. The only thing that will change their attitudes to the “uneducated public” is to prove that we DO know what we want, and we CAN back it up with valid information, and if they do not accept it, we will go elsewhere.
Unfortunately the way they go about pushing it all can be very disheartening for some, angering for others. I dont have much of a problem, but I have acccess to the hospital and university libraries in my area because Im a student RN. My opinion was listened to because I could back it up with valid and recent studies. That, and when I threatened to home birth they panicked. Im too sick to safely home-birth and I know it, and so do they.
Sorry Im blathering.
Cheers.
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Trish Reply:
July 8th, 2010 at 9:37 am (Quote)
I think I was extremely emotional to the “dead baby card” because this was my second pregnancy and I had already told this particular doctor that my sister’s baby was stillborn at 40 weeks.
I had taken Bradley classes, I had already had a child where we delayed cord clamping, but I was SCARED the same thing would happen to me that happened to my sister.
I actually had already told him about my sister so imagine my horror when he said that! I ended up using him because of so many people telling me he was the best in Oklahoma City.
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Jane Reply:
July 8th, 2010 at 2:03 pm (Quote)
After my baby died, I researched EVERYTHING I could find about stillbirth and neonatal deaths, and if a doctor had tried to play the dead baby card on me, I’d have been nervous but probably told the doctor to dry up and die. :-b
If that’s really true, that this dude is the best in Oklahoma City, then I will proceed never to birth there. 
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My friend at work is 36 weeks pregnant and her OB at her appointment today told her that if the cord was allowed to pulse that the baby needed to be level or it would end up either with too much blood or anemic. Here was her reasoning- stick with me…
“because when mothers have babies in the car and they put the baby in the floorboard the baby has too much blood but if the mother has kept the baby on her chest it can be anemic.” Umm…..
I told my friend “so, how many babies has your doctor seen that were born in the car anyway?”
Not to mention that the whole cord blood flowing anyway but the way it’s supposed to is just stupid….
My friend has to hear me going on and on about NCB (I mean, I try to reign it in, but it comes out..) and yet she still has this OB that told her that birth plan= c-section and that letting the cord pulse without perfect leveling is bad for the baby!? She has had a great pregnancy like I did, so I hope she doesn’t let this doctor talk her into anything that will make it an unhappy ending..
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cheeks023 Reply:
July 10th, 2010 at 5:52 pm (Quote)
forgive me for being ignorant…but who in their right mind would put a brand new baby on the floorboard following a vehicle birth? I can’t even begin to understand that. What on earth would the mentality be “I shouldn’t hold the baby in arms because without a car seat it is illegal and dangerous; so I think I’ll put the baby on the floor instead. ” WTF??? That OB should not be allowed to practice if that is the extent of his common sense.
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Both of my babies were born in simalar condition. Neither was breathing yet but fine because they were still getting oxygen from their cords.
My hospital birthed baby was set on my chest and I immediatedly began rubbing her back to stimulate her to breathe. After about 10 seconds of this the doctor made us cut the cord where she was rushed over to the other side of the room to be forced to breathe. It was scary and unneccesary because she was still getting oxygen from the cord. They could have easily done damage to her with their early cord clamping. Apgars of 6 and 8.
My second baby was born in my living room. She had her cord wrapped around her neck twice. This didn’t impede her progress in any way. After she was born I caught her myself and held her on my chest. She wasn’t breathing until a minute or so after she was born. She was just fine still geting O2 from that cord. Apgars 9 and 9. (Oh, and they evaulated her IN my arms)
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I was SO glad to make it to the hospital with good enough timing that the CNM was on call. I’d spoken with her a couple of times before I went into labor (my OB that I loved for most of my pregnancy left unexpectedly 6 weeks before I was due…military *eyeroll*) and she knew that I did not want an internal monitor, an episiotomy, pitocin, etc. and also that I wanted my son in my arms immediately and his cord clamping delayed. It was so wonderful to have her there instead of the doctor on call. I saw him for 2 of my last 4 OB visits after my orig. OB left, and I suspect that at the last visit he stripped my membranes (I had a lot of spotting, it hurt like hell, and I had my son about 18 hours after the appointment) and tried to pull the dead baby card when I re-stated that I did not want to be induced (“Too bad, it’d be an easy induction, too.”) just because I was officially 41 weeks (I’m a big girl with a long cycle and a family history of big, late, healthy babies…so sue me!). Apparently, the placenta dies at 42 weeks exactly…
I did end up having an internal monitor at the end since the external started indicating “distress”, but the CNM asked before putting it in and explained her reasons (basically, if they didn’t do it the afore-mentioned OB on call would get cut-happy), and since the resident stitched up my tear, I still have issues with it (5 months later). Overall, though, I count myself pretty lucky to have survived without a c-section. There were 7 of us pregnant while our guys were deployed, and only 2 of us were allowed to deliver vaginally.
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OK … I’m probably going to rain on everybody’s “medical-birth bashing” but, as an RN at a women’s center responsible for receiving the newborns after the doctor delivers him/her, I have to make some comments concerning this. First of all, our medical center does support all methods of birthing, however, unless, during the delivery, it becomes obvious that either the life of the baby or the mother’s life is at risk, another (probably medical) intervention becomes necessary. Of all the different birth plans and/or natural (no med) births we have had, only 1 (!) was fully able to continue as planned. . . and, yes, those were births that were initially not assisted (no pitocin or breaking water). Delaying clamping the cord is not (would not) be a problem for us IF suction tubing and oxygen tubing were long enough to stretch (perhaps getting in way) all the way to baby who’s lying on top of mom. NEVER has a baby done well if can’t suction fairly quickly (this is NOT the movies people!) And, heaven forbid, a mom breastfeed before suctioning! If the fluid doesn’t end up in lungs and isn’t breathed out, then the other negative possibility is the baby vomiting all of that wonderful colostrum you just gave it! And, no, just because it was a “natural” (vaginal) birth does not mean ALL the fluid is squeezed out. Think about it, – a small width baby sliding out of a wide-pelvic woman equals, NO squeezing people, -DOES HAPPEN. And the whole deal with not using alcohol/antibiotic on cord? – go ahead. If you later don’t mind admitting your baby and having an IV with antibiotics hooked up to your newborn. – SEEN IT! The cord is an open wound. Yes, animals don’t do these things on Animal Channel. But, say, dogs for instance “lick” the end of the pups cords thereby sealing it. So go ahead and lick your baby’s cord! I don’t have a problem with that, but be prepared for some very disapproving/disgusting faces staring back at you. And speaking of dogs, – WHAT’S with doggie-style deliveries?! We support this but, trust me, from our view, it is VERY disgusting (for Dr’s also, not to mention husbands). Doesn’t matter that birthing is a “natural”/non-sexual event. A non-shaven vagina with protruding anus sticking up in the air is grotesque (not precious) in any light. We don’t go “aawweee” when the baby starts coming out. We are holding our hands out to catch w/ our faces turned to the side! Not to mention a liability waiting to happen if the baby “falls” out quickly before doctor has a chance to get into the room or walk to the bedside! For people who insist on doing things completely non-medical, PLEASE stay at home and use midwife. Just using the hospital as a safety net in case your natural birth plan turns into an emergency, – HUUMM? By the time you allow us to do something medically it’s usually gotten to a dangerous point already! And occasionally fatal, and then we get blamed because we “made you” take pitocin to induce labor or “made you” have a c-section. Quit being so high-minded and if we suggest something during your birth plan, please trust that it is you and your baby’s safety we are concerned about (especially when it comes to nurses since we are not suggesting things simply for convenience, unlike SOME doctors might do so they can get home for the 1st time in 2 days). I don’t think “bonding” with a blue/dead baby lying on your chest is what you have in mind people!
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Serene Reply:
August 4th, 2010 at 10:26 am (Quote)
Im glad you like it shaven and apparently dont give your husband anal play, but what in the hell does that have to do with birth? My god woman. There is nothing even REMOTELY pretty about birth until the baby comes out unless you are one of the 2 people that created that baby, so stop deluding yourself and go work in NICU if “pretty” is what you are after!
Unintervened births… You said you have seen only one? Im laughing my protruding anus and unshaven vagina off here, because I saw 2 on my very first day of my midwifery placement with Uni. Of the 5 births I saw in the first week (small hospital), only one required any intervention – even pitocin – whatsoever.
I defy you to come and debate this with me face to face because I guarantee you, you will have met your match. I actually DO have the knowledge base to back it up, as well as the experience from BOTH sides of the bed.
But for the love of CHRIST go get a job elsewhere because I swear if I have ever met a good contraceptive its you because right now I am terrified to get pregnant again in case YOU try assist me!
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Jane Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 9:58 am (Quote)
{Of all the different birth plans and/or natural (no med) births we have had, only 1 (!) was fully able to continue as planned. . . }
Okay, that’s something you need to put in lights in the front window of your practice, and put it as the subheader right beneath your practice name on all your pamphlets.
Because most birth centers have quite a better track record than that in regard to respecting the patients’ wishes and giving them a safe, drug-free, non-interventive birth. It sounds to me as if you’re actively sabotaging the efforts of the natural-birthing moms, and since you have such a negative view of them, please make sure to TELL incoming patients when they’re taking a tour or gathering information. You’ll be doing them a favor.
If you’re legit and not a troll, then please do consider switching to another area of medicine. You sound like you’re experiencing burnout, and that’s not good for you or for the women and babies in your care.
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adrienne Reply:
September 20th, 2010 at 4:25 pm (Quote)
woah, how did I miss all this fun?
ok, first of all, kthx, I did stay home with a midwife. and actually, I was instructed to get on all fours, it’s a better position for birthing. maybe that’s why all 4 of my births went according to plan? better odds than your birth center, I dare say. my midwives cared more about better birth outcomes than what was in their faces. news flash: the anus is really, really close to the vagina. anyone who never wants to see one should probably join a profession that doesn’t involve the other. you hate childbirth and your job. why not quit?
and that’s not even addressing the comments about cord clamping!
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~*Aria*~ had this to say,
Aug 4, 2010 @ 6:52 am (Quote)
Kym, I don’t believe you work for a women’s center. Any center that has only had ONE birth go without drugs or interventions IS the problem. The probability if emergency is very very slight.
You might enjoy Drs. Fogelson and Tutel, two idiots who claim there has NEVER been an unneeded c-section done, ever (F even says he speaks for all doctors…).
Childbirth isn’t about being sexy. So a butt in the air with a baby coming out isn’t sexy. So? It’s childbirth. The shame you put women through for not thinking about the doctor’s delicate eyes before their birth is cruel to the point it should be criminal.
Many babies aren’t suctioned and do fine. Your blanket advocation of forcefully draining the lungs of all babies makes you sound like a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
You are dangerous and should be banned from being anywhere near birth. Same goes for the doctors you claim to work with.
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Kym, not being in the medical field, I can’t address the issues of suction, etc. But as a mother who birthed her child, I *can* address the “on all fours” issue. I took Bradley classes–mostly good–and one thing that was stressed was that position changes can help labor progress, can help with pain management, and so on. I labored on all fours because it felt the best. Our nurse was FINE with it–she encouraged me to be in whatever position my body told me was best. And even though the doctor did not share our natural birth philosophy, she didn’t stop me or complain how non-pretty it was or how I looked like a baboon or whatever. I’m so thankful we had our GREAT supportive, helpful nurse instead of you.
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KYM YOU ARE A HATER.
Why are you even on this board? Why do you think you need to educate woman who have studied more, know more, and dare I say feel more than you? I believe you are on here just to get everyone worked up and mad at you. Gee I wish I could talk to you in person so I could laugh in your face at the ignorance that spews out of your mouth.
A “woman center” (should be called, Dr’s center) that has only seen 1 natural birth IS THE PROBLEM, do you honestly think that woman need so many interventions? Do you honestly think that just because it was once thought “medically necessary” that it couldn’t be proven wrong? There have been lots of things in the past that medicine has “discovered” just to relize later that it was a mistake and should have never been enacted!!! It’s the culture of NONCHANGE even in the face of proven medical studies that makes me the most upset and worried. I worry for all the women out there who are as ignorant of you (albeit not as vocal about their ignorance) and especially for my daughter who will now have to fight just as hard as I did to get the birth she deserves. She can have a natural birth or a c-section for all it matters to me, but I sure hope it’s truly necessary and the Dr she sees is up to date with all his studies and doesn’t just get into a pattern and stay there.
Go suck an egg Kym.
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Kym,
Get your priorities straight. If I come in to deliver my baby, *I* am the priority. My comfort, my health, my baby. It couldn’t matter less what you think of how I look or sound. Frankly, it is not my job to make things pretty for you. It’s YOUR job to encourage and help me, and to step in if things aren’t going safely. If you think your position as a nurse gives you the right to judge a good delivery by how pretty your view is….then you need to quit your job this second and spend the next five years tracking down every mom who ever had the misfortune of being in the same room as you, and beg forgiveness from her and her family.
Shame on you.
But also: Thank you for being the most perfectly delightful troll in the history of MOBSW…using you as a punching bag will provide much needed therapy for posters for the foreseeable future. It’s almost TOO easy, but that won’t stop us.
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mystic_eye had this to say,
Sep 11, 2010 @ 8:04 am (Quote)
(Facebook group)
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=410630&id=705455639#!/delayedcordclamping?ref=ts
Why Do Babies Cry
http://www.cordclamp.org/Why%20Do%20Babies%20Cr1.htm
Leaving Well Alone: A Natural Approach to the Third Stage of Labour
http://onyx-ii.com/birthsong/page.cfm?cord
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Sure, because that’s what happens while the baby spends 9 months in the womb. That makes so much sense!
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