Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“…This Is Why I Don’t Let Mothers Look At The Screen…”
“You’re not relaxing. This is why I don’t let mothers look at the screen, you get hysterical. Stop worrying about his SAT scores, he’s not even born yet. Relax! Relax!” -Ultrasound Technician to a mother during a painful transvaginal ultrasound.
Hopefully women will start rejecting vaginal transducers en-masse. If we don’t want people poking around in our vaginas during our pregnancies (stealth membrane strips?) labor (multiple VE’s), then it’s best to start with saying “No” to vaginal transducers too. It would be interesting to have some numbers on the number of different people who will have participated in vaginal penetration of the average pregnant woman throughout her pregnancy and birth “because we NEED to.”
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EN Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 4:42 am (Quote)
Before 14 weeks, there’s not really a great way to get a good picture of baby by ultrasound except for vaginally. If mom wants to see baby at that point or have a dating ultrasound (much, much more reliable when done in the first trimester), she is going to need a transvaginal ultrasound.
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Kate Reply:
June 12th, 2010 at 9:56 am (Quote)
I’m a first time expecting and definitely don’t know everything there is to know about ultrasounds, but my doctor did NOT do a transvaginal ultrasound in early pregnancy – didn’t even mention doing one. At my first appointment I was only 8 weeks.
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Mindie Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 5:13 pm (Quote)
I wanted a vag ultrasound and they refused, I am a bigger mom and was only 13 weeks at the time. The resulting pics and measurements sucked. I was really upset. I deserve clear sonogram pics of my baby too.
That said, the OP’s u/s tech was being a total douche.
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Mindie Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 5:14 pm (Quote)
And I wanted to add, the tech, in my case, wouldn’t have had to shamelessly press nearly as hard if she would have done it internally.
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Katie B Reply:
June 11th, 2010 at 4:15 pm (Quote)
Lol, you “deserve” clear pics of your baby?
Unless you were at one of those boutique places where you were paying out of pocket to have an ultrasound, the purpose of ultrasounds is NOT so that you can score keepsake pics of your baby. It’s a medical procedure so that measurements can be taken and/or the doctor can make sure that everything is developing normally. It’s not a photo session for you.
I wonder what people did before ultrasounds existed. Just think of all of our poor ancestors who didn’t get any of those ultrasound pics that they deserved!
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
June 12th, 2010 at 1:09 am (Quote)
Admittedly, normal 2-D ultrasound pictures make a baby look rather like E.T. as captured by a very primitive camera, but yes, a mother who has the procedure done deserves a clearer picture if there is a way to obtain it. In early pregnancy, if there are a subcutaneous layers of abdominal fat in the way, it is easier to get a clear picture if the woman gets a vaginal ultrasound, and in early pregnancy, chances are she has medical reasons for being given an ultrasound, such as a need to look for neural tube defects.
If I were going to be invaded with an ultrasound wand up the vagina, I’d want a clear printout; and at any rate, if the procedure is being done for screening purposes, it would behoove the technician to get as clear a picture as possible, wouldn’t it?
I personally don’t think ultrasound needs to be routine for the average pregnancy, but if a mother is having one done, she has a right to have it done competently, and to see the results if she wishes.
It also isn’t a high-risk procedure like, say, amniocentesis – heck, these days a mother can buy a personal Doppler from an advertisement in a mainstream parenting or pregnancy magazine and listen to her baby’s heartbeat at home if she likes, so it can’t be that invasive (I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing it, but that’s partly because I’m a tightwad). So even if it were for a “selfish” reason, why not let her have an ultrasound in a way that lets her get a clear picture?
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I think this was covered the last time we had a vaginal u/s post (I’m sure your husband’s bigger, or something like that) but why has this procedure come around? What’s the “benefit” of it over traditional u/s techniques?
And with all the moving around they have to do with a regular u/s transducer, who thought it’d be a great idea to start doing that inside a vagina?! *wince*
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Leigh Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 6:16 pm (Quote)
The vaginal u/s is the only one that works in very early pregnancy.
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Jane Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 6:39 pm (Quote)
And what are they going to do with the information they get? So now they can do an ultrasound at 4w3d, and….?
Unless they’re looking for an ectopic pregnancy, I fail to see why it’s necessary. Most of the time, there’s nothing they can do for a pregnancy at that stage anyhow. It’s not as if at six weeks they’re going to say, “THe baby is in trouble. We need to deliver him now.” No? And yet I hear all the time about perfectly healthy women with non-problematic pregnancies and NO symptoms whatsoever being given a transvaginal ultrasound.
[rant begin]
Why?
Oh, because the doctor said we should have one, and I got pictures.
And that’s medically necessary because…?
Oh, because he said I should have one.
In other words, there’s no reason. A friend of mine had 11 ultrasounds in a perfectly normal, healthy pregnancy. I have no clue why. She has no clue why except that they have a machine in the office and the doctor likes to do them.
“He wants to know that nothing is wrong.”
And what’s he going to do if something is wrong? Surgery on a five week fetus? Can the doctor prevent a miscarriage? Can he convince the placenta to attach closer to the top of the uterus? No? Then maybe we don’t need routine ultrasounds very early, if the limited information they give is not actionable.
[/rant over]
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Leigh Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 6:44 pm (Quote)
I don’t disagree. But some people want to know if they are pregnant or not and whether the baby is alive or not, and I do think it is their right to avail themselves of the technology should they so choose.
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Robbin Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 6:54 pm (Quote)
I had a blighted ovum miscarriage at 11w. I didn’t start bleeding until 11w. When I did, my midwife ordered the u/s to set my mind at ease because we couldn’t find a h/b with the doppler. We had still suspected all was OK, but we wanted the peace of mind. Sure enough, all wasn’t OK.
With my current pregnancy, I had a u/s at 7-8 weeks. I requested it for my own emotional well-being. The day of that u/s, I had a heavy bleed about 30 minutes beforehand. Heavy enough to soak my underwear and pants in about 5 minutes. It was a lot of blood. My husband wanted to skip the u/s and go right to the doctor, but I was adamant we follow through. The doctor would have just wanted one anyway, it would tell her far more than a vaginal exam could.
Sure enough, and as strange as that twist of fate may have been, there was a heartbeat, a healthy baby, and a subchorionic hematoma. I never would have known that and I would have stressed endlessly about the health and well being of this baby until we heard it on the doppler weeks later.
With a history of miscarriage, if you are the kind of person that emotionally BENEFITS from an early ultrasound, I think that outweighs the (very minute, never really proven) risk of ultrasound. I’ll temper this with the fact that I don’t believe in ultrasound except where medically indicated, and certainly don’t believe in its routine use and use for entertainment purposes…but when there is a benefit to using it, even if it is just an emotional benefit, it is a choice women should be entitled to make, knowing the pros and cons both ways.
My husband and I talked and thought long and hard about a “routine” 18 week ultrasound, and will be having that, too…just because emotionally I want all the security I can get with this one. I have hyperemesis gravidarum, carrying a pregnancy is a significant investment for me and it frankly scares the bejesus out of me to think about losing a baby at 11 weeks, let alone later… again.
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Jane Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 7:01 pm (Quote)
But you’re talking about a case where there’s a clear benefit to the mother. When I’ve been offered a transvaginal ultrasound, it was basically along the lines of, “Hey, you’re pregnant! Let’s stick this in you and get some piccies!” Uh. No, sorry. But not all women are aware they can turn it down.
It’s not the procedure itself I object to. It’s subjecting every woman to it when it’s not going to benefit every woman to have information that’s not actionable and in many cases only causes worry.
That’s usually the context in which I hear it: “I had an ultrasound at 5 weeks, but the baby is only measuring 4W2D so now I’m afraid something’s wrong.” And it turns out everything is fine after all. A friend of mine was advised to terminate her pregnancy at nine weeks because of a soft tissue problem in the baby; she had to deal with ten weeks of worry until they’d do another ultrasound and then when they did, surprise!, no problem at all. It’s for those women that I wonder why we’re having these routine tests that do nothing other than cause stress.
Again: ROUTINE. Not for a mom with a history of losses or symptoms that need to be investigated.
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Maria Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 7:22 am (Quote)
I think Jane made that point in her ‘rant’ and I totally agree. If you’re not having any reason for one, then why have one? If you are having a reason for one, such as bleeding, then it’s a good idea, if you WANT one.
For me, I was having no problems what so ever and my first visit to the OB I was told I had to have the vaginal u/s. I said no and the OB said she couldn’t be my doctor then! I didn’t want one and I had no reason to have one – 3 hpt’s had already confirmed my pregnancy. If there’s no reason to have one, then what’s the point? Just to be a ‘nice little submissive patient’?
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EN Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 4:46 am (Quote)
As a CNM, I am running across a ton of women who really really want an u/s in the first trimester. Sometimes it’s “just because,” sometimes it’s because they had a miscarriage in the past, sometimes it’s because they have no idea when their last period was and they want to know how far along they are, and sometimes it’s because they are bleeding and cramping. As long as a woman has had regular cycles and is sure of her LMP, a dating u/s is not necessary. Otherwise, I’d really prefer that she has it so that I don’t think she is 42 weeks when she is really 41. I discourage it in most cases (and I work with a population who is generally very anti-intervention). You’d be surprised how many women insist on having that early u/s when I don’t believe it’s necessary for their medical care.
Also, offices only get reimbursed for one u/s during pregnancy. That early u/s is not getting reimbursed, so I don’t believe that the office has any kind of financial incentive to do it.
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Kelly Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 8:33 am (Quote)
Mine have always been covered and I need an early u/s because I have pcos and long cycles. Based on my LMP all my babies should have had due dates 2 weeks earlier than they really were and I also have a history of pre-term labor so if I hadn’t have an accurate due date things could have gone very wrong with my daughters. Ftr though the u/s has alwasy been within 1 day of my own calculated dates based on my charts. I wish the docs would just take my word for it but my ob’s with my dd’s would not consider anything other than ovulating on cd14 and I usually ovulate 2 weeks later than that. I will admit that with my son my new OB listened and he wrote down a date based on LMP and on my calculations. We both had a laugh over my accuracy.
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Elizabeth Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 8:39 am (Quote)
Exactly ditto this. I had a transvaginal ultrasound done at 10w2d by my charting, close to 12 weeks by LMP. Ultrasound showed growth of 10w3d. I KNEW my charting was right but the doctor needed to confirm it. I sure as heck wasn’t going to get induced two weeks earlier than necessary if I could help it.
Now I’m not going to get another until my Level II (which is more than just looking between the legs). I personally question ultrasound safety but I feel those two are medically what I need. I know it won’t pick up all birth defects but it can at least get me more prepared if something is wrong.
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Katie B Reply:
June 11th, 2010 at 4:18 pm (Quote)
I think plenty of women are aware that early ultrasounds don’t generally provide useful information. Let’s face it, if given the option, most women are not going to turn down the opportunity to peek at their babies.
Just look at the commenter above who thinks it was so unfair that she didn’t get the “good, clear pictures she deserved.” Apparently some women think ultrasounds are their fetus’s personal photo session.
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Brenda Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 7:47 pm (Quote)
We were able to see my babies at 8 weeks with an ordinary ultrasound, so no, its not the ‘only’ way.
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Leigh Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 8:13 pm (Quote)
2 months isn’t “very early” pregnancy, then, Brenda.
I guess I have to qualify every single thing I say: Sometimes, in some people, with some practitioners, with certain particular ultrasound machines, in very early pregnancy, transvaginal ultrasound provides a better view than abdominal ultrasound, and in some instances, is the only way to get a look.
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Birth Unplugged Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 1:22 am (Quote)
I have had ultrasounds around 6 weeks in both of my pregnancies. There were reasons both times (1st was because I was bleeding quite a bit and 2nd was to date the pregnancy because I conceived while nursing and genuinely did not know how far along I was) Both times they started with an abdominal ultrasound, but couldn’t see things clearly enough, so they switched to the transvaginal. I don’t think they should be done routinely on everyone either.
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Brenda Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 6:35 pm (Quote)
I’m sorry, I realized as soon as I posted how poorly that across, and couldn’t edit! I think if you can’t get a picture abdominally, by all means, do a vaginal, but what makes me uncomfortable is that many doctors go for the more invasive of the 2 first…
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Leah Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 5:12 am (Quote)
When I have needed early ultrasounds (bleeding with #1, to find out dates with #3 since I hadn’t had a postpartum period yet) I much preferred the vaginal ultrasound. With early ultrasounds using traditional equipment, I had to fill my bladder using the “drink 32 oz of liquid an hour before” method. I much prefer a lubricated vaginal wand to bladder agony.
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Why would the tech assume the mother was asking about the baby’s SAT scores just because she wanted to look at the screen?
It sounds like the tech was the one who needed to relax. What a control freak.
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CCindy Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 6:49 am (Quote)
If it hurts its hurts. Find out why it hurts and stop doing that. What does that have to do with SAT scores. Sounds like the tech is bringing extra issues to the exam. I had one cooter cam with one of my 3 pregnancies. We suspected ectopic. Thank goodness it was only ligament pain. But my point was it didn’t hurt a bit. If it hurts somebody is doing something wrong. Maybe the mother is too tense. Maybe the tech should have just talked in a soothing voice and reminded her to relax and breath. I don’t see what that has to do with SAT scores or turning screens away. Maybe the OP will enlighten us.
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I turned down a vaginal ultrasound and told them if they wanted an ultrasound to do it abdominally, lo and behold and 10 weeks they could see the baby through the abdominal ultrasound! lol I don’t want those vaginal ultrasound wands anywhere near my “stuff”!
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My babies weren’t visible early with abdominal u/s, perhaps because my uterus is tipped? I am glad I had one with my son beause it protected me in the end. I should have been 10w and some days by dates but I KNEW I was only about 7 weeks (whacked out cycles and charting). The u/s confirmed. Otherwise, I would have been seriously figthing to keep him in, since he would have been 44 weeks 6 days by their dates, if he was allowed to be born when he was!
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If I got pregnant again I probably would not have the vaginal ultrasound- but it wasn’t like anyone asked when they did it the first time. I just assumed that everyone got them. (I was 12 weeks so there was really no reason to do it as far as dating purposes, plus i knew conception date).
Although, at the time I had not been wanting to get pregnant and had not had a SINGLE pregnancy symptom other than no period, so seeing that little person at 12 weeks was the first I time I admitted to myself that I was really pregnant. So in that way I am kind of glad that they did it. Next time, though I will most likely go with a homebirth midwife so I doubt I’ll get an early ultrasound.
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I have had two trans-vaginal ultrasounds in my life. The first was for a ruptured ovarian cyst that ended up requiring surgery. The second was for a pregnancy sonogram. They couldn’t get a good image of her head with the “belly” probe.
This situation is very poor behavior on the part of the tech. However, if you are in pain during a medical procedure that should involve no pain then say no (revoke consent). I understand that women feel they are in a submissive position, and they are, but they can still say no. Or their partner can say no for them.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
June 12th, 2010 at 1:16 am (Quote)
“I understand that women feel they are in a submissive position, and they are, but they can still say no.”
Hmm. I bet that’s another reason I rarely get along with most obstetric personnel, whether they are high-ranking doctors or low-ranking technicians and medical assistants. I sometimes find myself in physically awkward positions, but I have never felt “submissive” in the doctor’s office or in the hospital.
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Jane Reply:
June 12th, 2010 at 4:16 am (Quote)
Body-language-wise, being on your back and held down, even by one hand, is a physically submissive position. It doesn’t have to do with how you feel as much as physical positioning.
If I told you that when the obstetrician walked into the room you had to kneel, you would tell me hell-no. Because it’s a physically submissive position.
Now imagine if whenever a laboring mom walked into L&D, all the nurses were instructed to stand and salute. Again, physical positioning, nothing more than that.
Posture sends a huge message even when it’s not explicit.
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Sarah Dorrance-Minch Reply:
June 12th, 2010 at 9:10 am (Quote)
Ah. The one time I ever even let a nurse touch me in labour was when I got hauled into the maternity ward for that second birth, when I was too out of it from a night of barfing and diarrhoea to fight back. Funny, that was also the birth that felt like more of a rape than anything else. I imagine being too sick to fight back against the whole submissive-patient thing was part of why I reacted so violently later.
In general I do not tolerate that sort of restraint or touching. I have never waited patiently for an OB or NP to give me my biannual pelvic exam, half-naked and with feet in stirrups – I always waited sitting upright, reading a book, although I did agree to remove what clothes would get in the way and use the paper blanket to cover myself, unless the office was very cold, or unless I happened to be wearing a skirt that day, in which case I simply removed my underwear. I’ve never let any medical professionals hold me down on my back for any other reason, either, save that one time.
I’m a patient from hell. I really am.
My husband tells me that my own body language tends to be more domineering than not. I am a bit impaired in that area – you could be Marcel Marceau and I would have a hard time reading your posture and gestures – so I’ll have to take his word for it. If medical professionals are the ones used to being in charge and telling the patient what the procedures will be and how they will be received by the patient and so on, I can see how my own obvious attitude of “I’m in charge of my own body, you’re the one being paid to do me a service” would be, at the very least, offputting.
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Jane Reply:
June 12th, 2010 at 9:35 am (Quote)
It may well be that OBs and obstetric nurses, even though they KNOW and it’s proven that upright birthing positions are more effective and safer, find that they dislike the mom-in-control positions because it transfers power in exactly as you say. A mom on her knees, or standing, or squatting, is as you say — in charge of her own body while the doctor becomes a service provider who may not even be necessary.
Whereas if the woman is on her back, she’s physically incapable of doing all that much and the doctor, standing, is taller, mobile, and has both hands free AND a better view. If the mom is leaning against the bed to deliver half-standing, and the doctor has to be on his knees catching the baby, the doctor is the one in the submissive posture.
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Forgot to check in because this was posted when I was REALLY overworked… If I remember correctly (this was almost 9 years ago!) I would have been about 13 weeks at the time. One reason for the US was the “nuchal translucency screening” which is pretty standard in Israel – I don’t see it mentioned in any of the comments above.
The doctor who conducted this US – not just a tech, but an “expert” M.D. – was quite simply a brute. He was grinding his fist into my stomach from above and poking with the wand at the same time, and yes it really hurt. He insisted that the pain was my own fault because I was too tense, and made fun of me for being anxious about the baby (which I wasn’t – I was tense because of the pain!)
Needless to say we never went back to him and I have warned others to steer away from him. I’ve since heard more stories about this doctor and it seems I had a pretty typical experience.
In later pregnancies I went to a different doctor who was much gentler, and also explained why I might experience some pain – not sure I’m translating correctly but he said I have a “fibrous” womb (lots of small myomas) which may cause some pain and also occlude the US image. But actually with this second doctor there was no pain and he did manage to get very clear images. I suppose that’s the difference between a professional and a brute.
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Ok. So I’m really confused. At my 18 week u/s with DS I had a regular u/s. Saw awesome pics of my baby. Got all the measurements done. Everything went great. And then everyone left the room so they could do the cooter cam. She said to see my cervix. It was my 1st so I didn’t know any better. Is everyone saying it was totally unnessary!?
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Aside from the fact that this technician sounds like a Class A jerk, what in the name of jiminy cricket makes him/her think it’s up to him/her whether or not the mother looks at the screen?
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Jane Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 5:05 pm Jane(Quote)
I’ve had an ultrasound tech turn the screen away from me.
Ironically, the time something was TERRIBLY wrong (as in: fatal to the baby) the tech didn’t turn the screen.
To the mom who posted this: I hope your next comment was, “You’re hurting me! Stop jabbing that thing around!”
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Robbin Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 6:33 pm Robbin(Quote)
I had a tech turn the screen away from me, too. It’s really awful.
Sorry for your loss.
To the OP: Ugh, how is it that people who are HCPs can be so utterly without feeling and compassion? What an experience!
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Paula Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 10:28 pm Paula(Quote)
My tech turned my video off. I was so glad I made her turn it back on. It was easier to grieve to be able to see the baby.
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