Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
Nov
24
Posted by My OB said WHAT?!?.
“The Baby Went Out With The Medical Waste.”
“The baby went out with the medical waste.” -Nurse informing mother about what happened to her baby after a D&E for fetal demise at 16 weeks.
There are 36 comments to this post.
When I saw this, my jaw dropped, I covered my mouth and my eyes just filled with tears. I am literally sick to my stomach. That’s horrible. It’s bad enough that parents ever have to grieve for their children, when their “care” providers make it worse, that’s just… there’s no words adequate.
If the mother who submitted this is reading, I am so deeply sorry for your loss. I hope you are able to find some peace, and that as we approach the holidays, you are surrounded with people who will be gentle with your heart. Holidays tend to be extra hard for me, at least.
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Again, this was me…(I’ve had six born but had three miscarriages). This call to L&D to find out what happened to my baby first started with the question from the nurse, “what did your OB say?” I replied, “she said I don’t want to know.” The nurse then said, “well, then you don’t.” I pressed her and she told me he “went out with the medical waste.” I later called back and talked with a social worker who assured me the remains were incinerated. I have found out since that yes, the remains of a fetus are treated like other medical waste and it’s normal practice, and legal. Now if baby had been 20 weeks along, then they would have given me options because legally in my state 20 weeks a fetal death is considered a still birth. Before 20 weeks you do not get anything. At 20 weeks you get foot prints and locks of hair if you like. With a D&E at 17 weeks (16 weeks the death was confirmed) you get nothing, it’s just a surgery.
I went on to have a law passed in my state that if a mother miscarries in the hospital or has surgery for fetal demise she MUST be told she has a right to the remains for burial if she’d like. This is how I learned about the common incinerator. Some staunch Catholics would find this offensive as did my Representative who promoted the bill. Despite the law, I’ve found out mothers are NOT being told about their right to the remains.
I also later realized the OB did NOT help in this situation. She scheduled my D&E right away, and I didn’t have a choice stated to me. I could have asked and tried induction, which would have been preferred. I also didn’t even think to ask for the sonogram in the office the day I saw my 16 week old still but perfect little one. He had died within 24 hours of my regular OB appointment, and he looked so right but there was no flash of a heartbeat. I had to ask for sonogram images later, but all they saved were the femur and the skull circumference. I could only get photo copies, the OB kept the originals in her file.
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What I mean by “common incinerator” is that it’s normal hospital practice to use the same incinerator for whatever comes from surgery etc. It’s also all thrown out in the same place. A company has to take it all to a dump some place, I don’t know where or how it’s done. I didn’t know this was the practice in all hospitals in my state, but the hospital association and the state number crunchers determined it would be very costly to seperate all surgical “products of conception” from other surgical “waste” and so the bill, which originally asked for remains of miscarried/iufd babies be seperated and not even incinerated but buried, ended up dropping that provision to get the informed consent of disposition of remains part passed. Despite this, there is no penalty for not telling mom…so it’s not actually doing anything. I will have to get information from moms and testimony to take before the legislature in my state in order to get this passed again with penalty.
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Echo Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 5:00 pm (Quote)
Good for you! I am so sorry for your loss and I hope you are successful in your fight to enforce human decency for those who are in a time that need it most. Can you share the state? Do you have a website or something where we can share that information?
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Dawn Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 6:18 am (Quote)
Here’s a link to a letter I wrote Kota Press:
http://www.kotapress.com/section_articles/childDeath/miscarriage/mcgregor_miscarriage.htm
And this is another site that deals with rights of parents to determine what happens to fetal remains after their child dies or is miscarried….
http://adamssong.net/
Sadly, Adam’s song appears to be down for the forum, it had listed states and progress on such laws. My information was in there, but it’s gone now.
The final result actually was that HB2341, the bill my rep created for me, was substituted with a line in SB2097. It passed, therefore, what we were working for was passed despite the bill death. Scroll down and you can read about it:
http://www.accesskansas.org/ksbma/legislation.html
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Dawn Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 6:23 am (Quote)
This is what ended up in the final bill:
http://www.kslegislature.org/bills/2008/2097.pdf
“Sec. 3. Every maternity center and medical care facility licensed by
the department of health and environment to operate in the state shall
adopt written policies and inform parents regarding their options for dis-
position or taking of fetal remains in an event of a fetal death.”
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My heart sank and my throat choked up when I read this.
Nothing more to add, but that I hope Mommy and family somehow find comfort and peace from somewhere after this loss.
Oh, yes, and I’m pretty sure hospitals have training sessions on sensitivity and bedside manner. This nurse was apparently out sick that day.
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Michelle Potter had this to say,
Nov 24, 2009 @ 2:11 pm (Quote)
My God. I am so sorry. I hope this mother was able to find some kind of comfort despite such cruelty.
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Dawn, I am so sorry to read this, and am very inspired by your call to action after such a traumatic event. I’m 15 weeks pregnant right now and this really resonated with me and I have been thinking about it all day. I’m so sorry for your losses.
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I had a very similar experience … after miscarrying my first pregnancy, I had a D&C. Before going under, I asked my doctor what was going to happen to my baby’s remains. I asked if I could have them in a box to bury. She looked at my like I was completely crazy and told me that they would go with the rest of the medical waste. I started crying again and she looked terribly annoyed and walked off.
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Dawn Reply:
November 29th, 2009 at 9:30 pm (Quote)
Kristi,
If you want to change your state laws, just let me know. Maybe we can work on it. Your state may already have laws on the books somewhere. I would also consider writing a letter to the hospital in complaint of this doctor as this comment was very unprofessional and cruel.
I am very sorry for your loss. Blessings to you.
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My jaw just dropped. That is horrifyingly disgusting. i mean i know that if they’re doing a D&E then it is likely unless there is a very nice and compassionate staff but apparently this place doesn’t qualify. Some even if you do birth, they don’t let you see the baby or give options either. It is hard for me to believe that mothers and babies are treated this way.
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Henry Dorn MD had this to say,
Feb 22, 2010 @ 6:00 pm (Quote)
I am sorry to hear that such blunt words were used by my colleague.
It would be helpful to me to know what women might like to have happen to the fetal remains after a D&C, which in general I don’t encourage, but offer as one of several options, including allowing the natural process to occur.
The reality of the procedure and its outcome is not pleasant for the physician, much less the lay person, and I can understand why some doctors might be hesitant to let the mother see the remains, or describe what happens to them.
Given this, I recognize there is a wide range of human experience and attitudes towards death and loss. In New Zealand where I practiced, all body parts (appendix, placenta, etc.) are offered to the patients, since the Maori will bury them at a sacred site.
How would you like to be counseled in an instance such as this? Would any of you want to receive the remains for burial? How would you want to receive them?
Appreciate your responses as it will help me with similar patients down the road.
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Dawn Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 6:15 pm (Quote)
I personally think it would have been nice to have the option to induce because I was at 16 weeks. Now, the OB could have given me the facts, that the baby would not look pretty or it would be painful. Next, in the operating room or if I did have an induction, foot prints on paper could have been obtained by medical staff or clips of hair if there was any. Beyond this, a woman could be offered remains for burial. They could have been sent to a funeral home/cremation site or something at mother’s request and placed in a tactful small box for the mother to bury if she likes. If she doesn’t, the hospital could dispose of the remains as normal.
As for counsel…I think having a listening ear available is nice on the day of the treatment, but also a number for the mother to call. Maybe a pamphlet with information and numbers for counsel, after all, OB’s cannot do everything. There are organizations all over the place that offer counseling and a doctor only need have something for the mother to decide what she wants to do.
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Kate Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:27 am (Quote)
What a tricky question. I think I would prefer to have the option for induction too, of if possible to wait for my body to expel the baby by itself. After the birth of the baby I would definitely want to hold, smell, look at him/her. I think that’s really important for a woman, in order to help with the grieving process. I think that once I had done this, and taken a picture and maybe hair if there was any, I would be happy for the hospital to dispose of the body. Saying that, I am not in any way religious, so a burial or ceremony would not hold meaning for me in the same way as it might for other people. So I definitely think people should be given the option to take the remains so they can do whatever feels right for their culture/beliefs.
hth
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MJ Reply:
March 3rd, 2010 at 9:43 am (Quote)
First, I am very sorry to hear of the OP’s loss. I lost a daughter at 18 weeks and my experience was the complete opposite. I lost my Carni to an infection and my body started labor soon after her passing. I called my regular OB who was quite dismissive, telling them I was heading in and why (contractions and red blood at 18 wks) it took them an hour to call me back. In that time I also called my High risk OB and he sent me right in. The staff in L&D had been alerted to what could possibly be happening and they acted with such kindness and compassion. They looked for her heartbeat and allowed me to see her image on the screen and print out the pictures for me. I was given the options of a D&E or to give birth. Given everything my body was doing giving birth was my best option. I was given all the pain relief I requested. I cried the whole time, I screamed and cursed and was met with that same kindness through it all. I was unable to look or hold my daughter immediately, but after a sleepless night and some time I was able to hold her. Kiss her and say good-bye. Today I wish I had held her longer and kept her with me longer. Bathed her, dressed her, placed her on my chest and just taken the moment, but at that moment I was unable to do more. My nurse took the pictures I wanted since I was unable to, I so wish we had a picture of all 3 of us, but the thought never entered my mind. I was in such shock.
The staff let me set the pace and tone for what I needed. Kindness and compassion and tears were given to me by these strangers- for those gifts I am immensely grateful. They arranged for her cremation for me, and they held her ashes for me until I was able to pick them up. I guess as a doctor asking- listen to your patient. Really listen- to her body language, to her eyes, to her partner, to her tears. It is a heart-breaking experience, but when met with true compassion and a desire to make it better the patient is able to start the healing process. I was given that and it made a world of difference.
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Claire Reply:
June 18th, 2010 at 3:54 am (Quote)
I had my little girl at 19+6, she was born alive and died at 20+0, so I did get to bury her. It was very important to me, besides the fact she was born alive she is my daughter.
Reading that comment made me think of people who have stones or teeth out and get the option to keep them, why is that OK but our children (because whatever technical term you want to use, it’s someone’s child) get thrown away in the trash like they’re nothing?
My daughter didn’t look great, she was born footling and her head was held inside the uterus for awhile so she was bruised (Mum said her first thought was that I had cheated on my partner because she was so badly bruised until she realised she was bruised), she wasn’t in a proportion you’d expect, her skin was see through… But to me it didn’t matter, this was MY baby!
Don’t underestimate people!
Parents don’t care what their children look like, they love them unconditionally and for many of us that starts from the moment we see “| +” so it doesn’t matter that our baby died at 16 weeks and isn’t going to look right, it’s our baby. Respect that and let the parents choose for themselves.
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Amanda Reply:
July 13th, 2010 at 7:36 pm (Quote)
I lost my son at 16.4 weeks, though he had stopped developing at about 12. I have beautiful pictures that I cherish very much, I was able to hold and see him (once I recovered from surgery to remove the placenta), we had a small graveside service and buried him with his big brother in our cemetery. I thought this was normal practice until speaking with others on-line. My heart goes out to all mothers who had their children stolen from them and do not even have a place to go and honour their child at.
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Honey Reply:
July 18th, 2010 at 5:11 pm (Quote)
I lost my first child, a daughter, also at 16.3 weeks, she had been gone for over a week (discovered loss at scan) whilst I waited for her to pass naturally. When I labored with her – and it was a full labor – I called the hospital who told me there was nothing they could do, they could admit me if I wanted but they would not *do* anything. I rang back when the pain was so bad I could not stand and was asked what I expected, told to take over the counter painkillers. After a 38 hour ‘labor’ alone at home with a hot water bottle she was born. She wasn’t in good shape but I could see she was a girl and had little hands, she was bright red and slippery. I was a little hysterical and put her down to clean up blood, when I picked her up again she was freezing cold and I couldn’t handle that. I didn’t know what to do with her and was scared if I left her my dogs would eat her, so I flushed her down the toilet. The hospital rang me three days later and I had a scan ten days after that to check everything was gone, which it was. They gave me a leaflet explaining the process of miscarriage and that was that.
My heart goes out to you all.
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Stacie Hogan had this to say,
Feb 6, 2011 @ 11:38 pm (Quote)
I have never had this experience but I am in tears over this. My heart goes out to you poor moms who have had to experience this. I hope that most of you have the experience of wonderful caring drs that help you through this terrible time rather than the awful one of the OP.
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*jaw drop*
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